1964 peace dollar coin value?

Oh the joys of being these strange creatures we are. What appeals to some, doesn't to others. Why bemoan about it in this faceless electronic world that has become us. Go find what appeals to you and I will do the same. If I see something that I don't like, it's simple, I don't "like" it. If I do, I do "like" it. There is a lot on this electronic interactive chat place that I just shake my head(and sometimes giggle), then move on to the next topic. DCarr has the means to do these "fantasy", "copy", "replica", "insert your word here" coins and probably makes a pretty decent living at it. Good for him. I have bought some and some I wouldn't touch with a 10' pole. It just comes down to collecting what makes you happy. This is directed a no one and everyone.

PS - As usual, look at the source this post comes from and take it with a grain of salt because as my wife says(a lot) "You're an idiot". She's usually right, too.

 

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If you took an old car, totally disassembled it, restored it, and reassembled it, would it be a "copy" of that car ? No, it would be a "restored" (modified) original.

 

If actual US Mint dies were used to privately strike Peace Dollars on blank planchets, the result would be unofficial restrikes.

Is a genuine Peace Dollar that has been over-struck, a "copy" ?
Consider this question: Is an over-struck Peace Dollar still legal tender if no metal was added or removed and the design is the same as it was before (except for the date) ?

 

Who would spend a lot of money for a "1964-D" Peace Dollar ?
Why would a person think that a "1964-D" Peace Dollar would have significant value ?
For someone to have the motivation to spend a lot for one, the person would first have to have some knowledge of the 1964-D Peace Dollars. And as such, they would be aware that either the coin is a genuine original and illegal to own, or it is a recreation of some sort. Either way, the person would knowingly be taking a risk with their money.

Consider the original poster in this thread. They didn't know what the thing was worth. They were questioning the potential purchase even though it was for only a relatively modest amount of money.

 

Andy Warhol made a painting of a Campbell's soup can label. Arguably, he "copied" someone else's work. All art is built on something that came before, that inspired the artist. But he also made it his own in the process. Original Campbell's soup can labels are worth their weight in paper. But that iconic Warhol painting is worth millions of dollars.

I grew up in the Denver area and heard all the stroies about 1964-D Peace Dollars while visiting local coin shops in the 1970s. I often thought what it would be like to hold and look at a 1964-D Peace Dollar right off the press before it fell into the collection bin. Years later I put things together to be able to do that (as closely as possible).

In general, the things that I like to make are of interest to me as a coin collector. I imagine something that I'd like to have for my collection, and if it doesn't already exist, then I make it.

 

Some people may believe that one or more original 1964-d Peace Dollars still exist. I do not. There is not one shred of evidence that any still exist. No such coin has ever come to light. There has never even been a picture of one published anywhere.

The stories that Mint emplyees could purchase one or two of the coins (at the end of the shift on the day there were produced), have been debunked. The only credibile witness, who was working on the coins at the Denver Mint on in the annex where they were made, has publicly stated that the coins never left the annex and none reached the cashier for purchase. Those who remember being able to buy the coins from the Mint cashier have confused 1964 Kennedy Half Dollars with 1964-D Peace Dollars.

 

No, that is not what I said at all. The basic design on the finished coin is NOT changed - it is the same basic design that it started out having.

If I buy someone's product, that particular item that I bought is entirely mine, and I am free to do with it as I wish (within reason).

No pictures of an original 1964-D Peace Dollar have ever been released or published. It is doubtful that any pictures exist. So nobody knows exactly what they looked like. Nobody knows what "style" the date was on the original coins. But since the one entity that counts the most (the US Treasury) says that NONE exist (all were destroyed and none were issued), we have to go with that.

I've taken someone else's design, and after a specific alteration to one part of it (the date), I applied it back onto the thing that had that design originally. The resulting product is not a "copy". It is a "modification".

You are certainly entitled to call that "semantics" if you wish. But realize that I can just as easily consider your points to be "semantics" as well.

 

Please point to an example of something similar to the "1964-D" Peace Silver Dollar over-strikes that QVC has sold. And we will compre what its aftermarket value is on eBay compared to the issue price, and what the "1964-D" Peace Silver Dollar over-strikes are selling for now.

If is was so easy for someone else to replicate what I do, why haven't they done it ? It is not as easy as you think. You'd need to have a background in coins and history, have artistic skill and talent, and have a degree in mechanical engineering or similar. On top of that, no amount of money will "buy" the honor of having designed two US coins, and there are no other surplus Denver Mint coin presses available anywhere, at any price.

PS:
Your original "fraud" wording in your post was noted. Thanks for changing it. You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

 

You are welcome, Mr. Carr. I was considering buying one of your Peace Dollars just to have for my collection, while I definitely do not agree in the gratuitous mintage of unauthorized coins (I tend to be a purist collector), it might be a nice addition to my collection as a curiosity. So, I may well buy one of the 1965D ones as a curiosity piece, since as most collectors know, there are no extant 1964 Peace Dollars (I do believe that was the original gist of this thread, and not a slam upon you, btw).


Moreover, I never said it was "easy." Obviously, one has to have money and expertise to produce something that isn't the quality of a Bejing Morgan Dollar--it has to be designed, engraved, and sold as a high quality item, not as a trashy replica coming from a "rip off" market. I never said that you were ripping off anybody--just that I don't respect them as genuine coins--they're reproductions of designs, much as the Heritage or Franklin mint issues. Nothing wrong with that, but a lot of collectors who are not sophisticated don't understand that. They don't discern the differences between producing one's own coinage that looks very much like genuine US coins (they aren't, I realize that, and know that you have complied with the law--what you are doing is definitely legal). However, is it in the spirit of collecting, or merely a collecting curiosity? Therein lies the debate, and that can take place ad nauseam.

 

I do not recall nor have I ever seen where Daniel Carr has claimed that these 1964-D Peace Dollars are his or belong to him. He has always stated that these are overstrikes of original US Peace Dollars giving credit where credit is due. Even the original designers initials are still intact.

From the Moonlight Mint page:

"1) These are not copies of Peace silver dollars - they are privately over-struck on GENUINE government-issue Peace silver dollars that were originally minted from 1922-1935."

To continually harp on this "copy" issue is a rather silly chase.

 

Okay, I took the plunge. I just purchased a Daniel Carr overstrike of the 1965D Peace Dollar, individually handled, in high condition. Let's see what it looks like when I get it. If I am going to be critical, I should be objective, and this does, in truth, look really nice. This is the seller's photograph:

 

Mr. Car , I wonder why you used real Bust halves for your copy of a Bust half . Is it cheaper to use old US coins or to have your own planchets made . Also while I like some of your original works , I really dislike that you may have destroyed collectable coins . Did you check all these Bust halves for their Overton # ?

 

Wow MorganDude , that was a quick turnaround from your original post . What do you believe ?

 

I am dubious, but since I have never owned one, I want to experience it. It is easy to criticize something that one has never seen. If I like it, I shall post accordingly, but in order to be appropriately educated (since I have never owned a token, medallion, or coinage that wasn't official to the indigenous country), I should experience one. Since it isn't any more expensive than a Peace Dollar of common date in similar gem condition, I am willing to try it, before being self-righteous. Y'all that know me on this board know that I am a "fussy" collector, and I am willing to try and see if I have been wrong all of these years. Call this "self-education."

 

I do not believe my intent was at all unclear.

Is it really "intact" or was it "copied", along with a majority of the design?

Would it not be in Mr. Carr's best interest to avoid the word/term "copy"? Because something is said on this gentleman's site, does this mean all obviousness and logic should be thrown out the window? Some people dress puppies in Halloween costumes, but at heart they're still...


With all due respect, sir; it is no less silly than continually harping on the "modification" issue.

 

Take the web site at its face value as the coins themselves are "really" intact. The parent "coins" have not been "copied" but are original alloy Peace Dollars minted by the US Government to act as one dollars worth of silver for use in commerce if needed.

Sir.

 

Andy Warhol took a Campbell soup can , and then painted it . He didn't take a soup can and make a small change to it and call it original . It's the same as a painter painting a portrait or a landscape . The two can not be compared . Mr. Carr you seem to be picking at straws to convince everyone that your copy is not a copy . Also you want and rightfully so recognition for you work on the state quarters , but you give none to Anthony d e Francisci .

 

Like this?

http://www.moonlightmint.com/blog_1.htm

Intact:
-not damaged or impaired in any way; complete.

Now, are the designer's initials the same that were on the original coins, or were they copied (need I define this too?) to Mr. Carr's dies?

No, but they were overstruck with a design that was essentially copied.

 

Anthony d e Francisci didn't design it. Anthony de Francisci did.

Now, go stand in the corner all corrected and such.



BTW, Daniel Carr has never claimed this (the coin) to be an "original work". Only faithful "renditions" of the original work.

"This modern over-strike "1964-D" Peace silver dollar is the most exacting and faithful rendition ever produced. Holding this coin in hand gives the viewer a true sense of what it would be like to own an original 1964-D Peace silver dollar. And since these were over-struck on genuine Peace silver dollars, they have the correct weight (no metal is added or removed), correct metallic content, and correct diameter. Even the number of reeds on the edge (189) is correct. And to top it off, all the over-strikes were privately and painstakingly performed using a surplus Denver Mint coin press."

 

How else could you make an "exacting and faithful rendition"?
Now go stand with rzage.