eBay, safety, return policy, and a counterfeit

...which is precisely why this numismatic noob only buys slabbed on ebay...

 

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If you are required to return a counterfeit coin for a refund, and you are 100% certain it is not genuine, what are the ramifications of stamping the coin with "COPY" before returning it? I suppose the seller could always claim you didn't return the coin in the same condition, but I would be concerned with sending a counterfeit coin through the mail. Depending on the interpretations of your "intent", someone might accuse you of criminal activity:

If the parcel is inspected en route to its destination, you might find yourself in a position to defend yourself against accusations of criminal activity.

 

It is also a bad policy because the seller can sell a rare genuine coin, the buyer claims it is fake and they get a refund and get to keep the genuine rare coin as well.

As with the musical instrument story, who says the buyer destroyed it?

Title 18 section 472 deals with obligations and government securities. These are things like bonds or other government debt documents. Coins and most currency are not considered to be obligations or securities.

 

When I hit that fake 1920-S Walker, with the recalcitrant seller, I presented a good bit of evidence that it was fake. I can't imagine that the seller presented any convincing evidence that it was genuine.

I'd like to think that, if eBay got an isolated fake-coin complaint against a previously well-behaved seller, that they'd ask for some evidence from both sides before deciding in favor of the buyer. I'm afraid that they might not, though, and that fear is part of what keeps me from selling more.

 

Called eBay tonight, and they've opened a case, even though it's past the 30-day window (which I actually thought was 45 days). The rep made the appropriate alarmed noises when I said I'd received a counterfeit, and that the seller appeared to be moving other counterfeit items (he's up to 14 of those one-of-a-kind Hawaiian test strikes now; pretty impressive, considering that they appear to be out of stock at Jinghuashei).

She did mention passing this along to their "team of people who are good at spotting counterfeits"; I'd love to hear more about that.

More news here as it develops...

 

Definitely a fake. The strike is too flat (lacking depth) and the rim should not look like that. The date has really unflattering and unbalanced script. The whole fake "coin" lacks a strong 3-D look, smooth glossy surfaces and depth. That is a dead giveaway to me that it's a fake. The fake specimen looks like it was made cheaply on cheap equipment.

 

Opened case at 9:25 PM EDT; received full refund at 2:52 AM EDT -- seller is in Kansas City, so either he was up in the middle of the night, or he's really located Somewhere Else Again (or someplace that starts with S-E A).

Not sure how to follow up with feedback -- I got a prompt and full refund, but he's still selling fakes (I just reported the one here). I hate to go negative on a seller who's technically cooperated, partly because such feedback is likely to be removed; I'm considering a neutral FB along the lines of "Counterfeit coin; seller gave prompt full refund". I'd like to say "beware of other fakes still listed", but again, I think that would get pulled pretty quickly. Thoughts?

 

I think you shouldn't comment on other listings, but focus on the coin you bought. A neutral feedback would be fair, as you got your money back, right? If a potential buyer checks the seller's feedback they'll be warned.

 

Yep. I learned a bit about that from that PCGS video on counterfeits at youtube.

 

I'm noticing signs that this seller is starting to feel the heat. The auction I "won", and those listed around the same time, all had very general descriptions. All his more recent auctions include a message along these lines:

Sorry, no. You're selling fakes, and eBay needs to know.

Thinking about starting a new thread inviting people to report this guy's auctions. He's got four active at the moment, ranging from "almost certainly fake" to "laughably fake" (check the spaghetti hair on this 1936 Cleveland commemorative). But he's listing the fakes as 1-day auctions, presumably to cut down on the chance they'll be reported. I've reported all of them, and I told the rep that it looks like he's been selling fakes for a while, but it would help to have more voices pointing it out.