1964 peace dollar coin value?

"DC didn't copy anything. It's an over-strike that changed the date...the design was not changed/altered/modified/copied in anyway."

I disagree as it wasn't an over-strike with the original dies, it was with dies that were manufactured by DC copying, yes copying the original design ( except adding his 'date' and 'mintmark'. The underlying planchet is to confuse the issue. Yes the design was copied! If DC used the actual mint dies of a peace dollar and struck them , then I would stand corrected.

 

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Come on Camaro. This isn't about some lazy guy looking to get a steal of a deal. To that guy I'm with you in saying "too bad sucker". However, there are beginners in the hobby who just don't know any better even though they are trying their best to learn. I honestly don't know where I stand on DC's coins. A part of me says they are too similar to the real thing, but another part of me keeps thinking the fantasy dates make them okay. In the case of the 1964 Peace Dollar, it's more iffy since those were minted at some time - albeit all supposedly destroyed. My only suggestion is to think about it and don't just go with the default reply so many others go with. In other words don't just reiterate what the mob says. Which is... 'a little more research should be done by the buyer' or 'it's their fault if they get screwed'. That's a cop out reply, in my opinion. How would you like it if your son or daughter bought a "fantasy" coin in which he was fooled into thinking it was a legit US minted coin? Again, we're not talking about a coin with Mickey Mouses face on it. We're talking about a coin that has an almost identical design to a real US coin.

 

Apparently since the designed isn't copywrited, copying the design is allowed as long as not for fraudulent purposes.

 

I 'm the one who probably started this whole bru ha . I did say after Ricks post that my use of the word counterfeit was a bit strong , but it is a copy . I in no way bashed Mr. Carr . I called him a talented artist who I wish would stick to his own creations . As I find some quite beautiful . But I do believe that these so called fantasy pieces that were made and supposedly destroyed , are going to cause trouble for some down the road . IMO .

 

Hey, first, thanks for joining the discussion. It's pretty cool to hear from you and read up on the legalities and such that allow you to do what you do. Let me also congratulate you on your fine work with the state quarters. As BB4C has stated, I too admire the quality of your work and entrepreneurial spirit. However, and please don't take this the wrong way, don't you feel you are riding on the coattails of someone else's work? (In regards to the Peace Dollars and other coins which weren't your designs) I'm not suggesting you are motivated by money. I don't know you and would not presume that. For all I know you do it out of passion.

 

None of DC's creations are coins that have been issued by the US mint. Even brand new collectors should do 30 seconds of research if they are going to buy a coin (especially an expensive one). That 30 seconds of research (seriously...just google 1964-D Peace Dollar)...should make it very clear that the coin was never issued. That is why I think it's OK. If someone is willing to shell out big money without doing ANY research...then I have no sympathy for them.

It's not a cop out at all...it's the truth. There are far too many people out there who refuse to do any legwork in life...this is an example of that.

 

Personally, I don't understand how they will...but maybe I am wrong. It seems to me that serious collectors will know what they are. Due to the high quality, they will be collectible for what they are and they carry a pretty high price tag. One would hope that someone who was willing to spend that kind of money on the piece would at least know what it is.

 

My understanding is the employees at the US Mint are constantly reminded that top shelf Gov't employees and are treated more like military service workers than civil service employees. That's why you seldom meet a current US Mint employee outside of their day to day duties. You will most likely never meet one, I compare it to meeting somebody who works at Area 51, it's all top secret. It's believed that all the 1964 Peace Dollars minted where smelted and made into other coins. I doubt very much that any one of the Mints employees at the that time, got away with any at all. I hope I'm proven wrong someday but I doubt I ever will be.

http://www.pcgs.com/top100/reward.aspx

 

Not only all of that, but they are friggin illegal to own. Anyone thinking they came upon the steal of the century are doing so under clandestine condition in the first place. I won't lose a second of sleep if that person loses his fortune thinking they bought "the real thing". Again, they are ILLEGAL to own. Anyone thinking they are buying it would be committing a crime.

 

I think DC's fantasy pieces could be trouble when/if the real ones come to light. It is believed that some of the real ones escaped the mint and are currently being held in private collections in secret. I wouldn't be shocked if this was the case. They never counted the coins prior to destroying them. They weighed them instead. There are stories out there that some of the mint employees were given (or purchased) 1964 Peace Dollars but not all were returned when the mint demanded. There is also a story/rumor that halves of previous years were put in place of the 1964 Peace Dollars - so the weight wasn't off.

 

Camaro, you are not wrong in your opinion. As I have said before, I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the 1964 Peace Dollars. I find myself leaning towards the thought that they should of had something a little more different so as to make it more difficult for someone to deceive another person. With that said, they are pretty neat. I'm curious as to how collectors will value them in the future. It's possible due to their low numbers that they could be pricey in the future. On the other hand, serious collectors might not like the notion that the coin was entirely restruck. What do you all think?

 

So, in your own words, everything about the coin is copied other than the date and mintmark.

With all due respect, sir; the fact that you're "modifying" someone else's work does not rightfully make it your own. Even the "modified" date is of the same style as the original, so this would leave the mintmark; do you honestly believe that such a minor change to an otherwise original design justifies it no longer being called a copy?

"Copying"/"modifying", To-may-to, to-mah-to.

Again, I very much respect what you do and think it brilliant how you've exploited such an obvious, yet unfulfilled niche. However and no matter how much work you put into producing the US "fantasy" issues, the fact remains that you've taken someone else's design, copied it, and then changed it just enough to suit your needs while still allowing for it to very much resemble the original (design). This, and semantics aside, by definition, is a copy.

COPY:
-a thing made to be similar or identical to another.


As the other gentleman said, none of this is new and while some of the participants may have changed, most of us have been through this before. Thank you for coming and again adding your two-cents, sir.

 

You've provided an excellent explanation but I think you're wasting your time since folks are NOT going to see what you've explained regardless of how you explain it.

They've already made up their minds and will simply pick at any replies to justify their decision. If that doesn't work then they'll start citing USC 18 and USC 15 and then the HPA and whatever else they can grab at.

Not everybody is going to agree nor understand what the purpose behind the Moonlight Mint might be.

The only thing FOR SURE, is that Dan's creations are so popular that even the Chinese are copying them!

 

Yeah. Like the word COPY Perhaps?

About 6 or 7 years back, a fella acquired one of the replica US coins off of Gallery Mint or some place, filed the word COPY off then proceeded to list it on eBay. It actually attracted bids before it got shut down!

Three lessons here:

1. Some people will bid on ANYTHING if they think they can squeeze a buck out of it.

2. Even following the HPA does not guarantee that some fool won't come along, alter the coin, and then sell it to some other fool.

3. People REFUSE to do their homework because they know they can always cvry on someone's shoulder for the pity they do not deserve.


Now, where will these coin be in the future?

That's an easy one as there are several unauthorized restrikes that are sought after by collectors in the classic coin series. One was done in 1860 and since the collecting community wants them, PCGS will even grade them with the proper slab label.

I like most of Dan's work. Some I do not care for.

I am not alone. And neither are the dissenters.

 

Daniel Carr is the rich Man's " Heritage Mint." He sells expensive replica and non- currency issues, that one would normally purchase om QVC. Anybody with a pile of money, and some creativity can do the same thing, I would never touch any of his over strikes ( word replaced) at any price.

 

I am with you in that I would prefer that this type of stuff didn't exist in the hobby, but he is not breaking any laws (as far as I know) so I wouldn't call it fraud. However, I can see someone making a good case for his work being unethical. Regardless, the man has found a niche market where collectors are willing to buy his quasi-replica coins. Good for him I suppose. Also good for those collectors that are aware these are just copy/fantasy coins and enjoy them anyway. My philosophy is different then theirs in 'why buy a copy/fantasy coin when you can buy real money?' And in most cases for less.

 

[here's where I talked about a comment that was retracted, so never mind]

 

While I'm no lawyer , This is a forum and it's MorganDudes opinion . Last I heard this is the USA with freedom of speech . What I don't understand is getting upset over mine or anyones opinion .

 

I changed my language so as to be "appropriate". It is a legal, unauthorized reproduction/alteration of a non- copyrighted design. I acknowledge the legality of producing said coins, but I don't approve-- my prerogative.

 

I find nothing to argue with in these statements. I happen to approve of Carr's overstrikes in general, but I understand why some don't.