1964 peace dollar coin value?

I guess I should start calling my wife "US Mint", as she changes EVERYTHING I design or say.

 

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It is what it is.

As for the OP, had he not asked and went ahead and purchased the piece, I'm sure he'd miss his $24 which is a lot cheaper of an education than some folks pay.

As for the comparison of DC's coins with these knock offs of DC's coins, only an examination of one will tell the tale.

Authentic overstrike of an original Peace Dollar? Probably not since there's a loss there due to the price of authentic Peace Dollars.

A good alloy imitation of Silver? Probably so as that's the only way to make any profit.

I may buy one just to see what they look like.




Nah!

 

No he doesn't. He has asked for an opinion several times but has never received an answer. No answer is not approval.

The Maine state quarter is also a close adaptation of his submitted design.

His 1964 D peace dollar does not have DC on it.

 

I was informed of the existence of this thread and was asked to participate.
I would like to clarify some of the information discussed in this thread (in no particular order).

1) The coin shown in the original post of this thread is one of the cheap Chinese-made pieces. It was not struck over a genuine Peace Dollar. It is not made of actual silver (in fact, it probably would stick to a magnet). Other identifying characteristics are the crudely-formed "64" in the date, a general mushy-ness of the design, and a rough texture on the high points in the centers.
Here is a link to another eBay auction which shows the (lack of) details a little better: http://www.ebay.com/itm/380924471221
And here is another eBay one that has less roughness, but the same mal-formed "64": http://www.ebay.com/itm/151328372721
Compare the shape of the "64", and the general detail level and luster, with the over-strikes that I did:

And here is my production "blog" showing all the details of my production:
http://www.moonlightmint.com/blog_1.htm

2) In my minting activities, I use original designs of my own. I also sometimes use and adapt designs of past US coins. Such designs were originally created using taxpayer dollars, and so by law thay can not be copyrighted. Only a very few modern US coin designs are actually copyrighted. "Explicit permission" is not required. But, as always, any use of these designs (or any other designs) for fraudulent purposes is illegal.

3) The US Mint has never given any "blessing" to any private mint. They simply tolerate such mints that operate within the law. As far as I know, there has only been three legal actions against private minters in the last several years:
A) National Collectors Mint was fined as a result of complaints about their marketing of the "Freedom Tower Silver Dollar", which claimed to be legal-tender of the Northern Mariana Islands.
B) The US Mint sued the Washington Mint for making large 3-inch replicas of the Sacagawea Dollar. The Sacagawea Dollar obverse is one of the very few US coin designs which actually is copyrighted.
C) Bernard Von Nothaus was convicted of "counterfeiting" for his organization's attempts at placing his "Liberty Dollars" into commerce as legal tender.

4) Peace Dollars dated "1964" were minted in May of 1965. However, the US Treasury Department's official final word on the subject (issued in 1973) states that ALL were melted and the coins "were never issued". So they do not exist according to the government.

5) I was never an "engraver" for the US Mint. However, I was a finalist in the Sacagawea limited invitational design competition. As such, I was later invited by the US Mint to submit designs for all five of the 2001 state quarters. Ten US Mint staff members and about 20 outside artists submitted designs. My designs were chosen for New York and Rhode island. The US Mint asked me to revise my Rhode Island design to have it show a specific ship. I revised my design and the US Mint used it as I had finally submitted it, with no major changes. At the time, the Mint's policy was to not credit the designers of state quarters. Only the US Mint sculptors/engravers were credited. I did receive a $2,500 payment from the US Mint for each of the designs that were used. Here is my web page with images of the original sketches: http://designscomputed.com/coins/sq_2001.html

6) For the 2003 state quarters, the US Mint was not accepting any artwork from outside the Mint. I submitted a design directly to Maine in their state-run "design contest". The state of Maine chose my design as the winner, and they wanted it for their state quarter. But the US Mint wanted to do their own artwork for it, which they did, based on a narrative of my design concept. People from Maine generally didn't like the US Mint version. Here is my web page showing my original design for the Maine state quarter: http://designscomputed.com/coins/sq_2003.html

7) I do not always mark the pieces I mint with "DC". If the piece is my own design, then it is either marked with: small "DC" letters (with the "C" in the shape of a crescent moon as a reference to Moonlight Mint); or a stylized "DC" inside a circle logo.
When I do a fantasy-date over-strike, the date alone is a significant mark. In the case of the "1964-D" Peace Dollar over-strikes, I also have published on my blog (linked above) the specific characteristics and mint-mark double-punching which can be used to identify them. The only time I have done over-strikes that weren't a fantasy date was the 2009 "proofed" Silver Eagles. The US Mint did not issue any proof Silver Eagles that year. So I took regular non-proof 2009 Silver Eagles and over-struck them to give them a cameo proof appearance. On those coins, in addition to the proof finish, I added a "DC" mint mark to the reverse as an added identifier.

 

Let's define "copy":

1. an imitation, reproduction, or transcript of an original: a copy of a famous painting.

(Imitation:

-a thing intended to simulate or copy something else.

Reproduction:

-the action or process of making a copy of something.)

With all due respect, they are nothing but copies, but with the date changed and perhaps a marker thrown here or there.

 

Like I said...none are copies of US issued coinage. I fully understand what the word "copy" means and if I didn't, I know how to use google.

 

If you take a pair of genuine Nike shoes (for example) and dye them a color that was not originally issued, are they then a "copy" ? No, they are an unofficial modified version.

For something to be a "copy" the original has to exist. According the the US Government, 1964 silver dollars do not exist.

Some people might argue that, date aside, my "1964-D" Peace Dollars are a "copy" of a Peace Dollar type. But they are, in fact, NOT copies of a Peace Dollar type. They are genuine original Peace Dollars that have been privately altered.

Defacing and altering US coins is legal, so long as it isn't done for fraudulent purposes.

 

Mr Carr,

You have probably noticed that several members here consider your work to be counterfeits or otherwise damaging to the hobby. Although I don't personally own any of your pieces (I wish I did, but they are a little above my price point right now)...I find them quite fascinating and based on what I have seen they are very nicely done. I consider your work to be wonderful pieces of art and in no way damaging to the hobby. I look forward to seeing what your next creation will be.

 

You copied someone else's work and changed certain details to skirt legal issues; good for you. This has nothing to do with legal issues, sir, and if you can make a buck, all the power to you, but let's be honest here. They may not be "copies of a Peace Dollar type", they are copies of THE Peace dollar type.

 

I don't understand how this is ANY different than a hobo nickel. He took an existing coin and modified it.

 

In regards to the modification aspect, perhaps it is no different. Well, other than the creativity aspect, of course.

 

I would agree that it's not terribly creative...but that doesn't matter. The 1964-D Peace Dollar is a dream coin for a lot of collectors, I would love to have one but they simply don't exist. I see this as basically a "Hobo Peace Dollar" that fills that void for collectors who want a 1964-D Peace Dollar. If you can't have the real thing, this is the next best thing.

 

Thanks, DC, for your clarification.
I actually own some of your creations and enjoy them greatly.
I try to get them as you release them. I can't afford them in the aftermarket.

 

The last I checked, Di Francisci's Peace Dollar was "issued", and this is what goes to the heart of the matter.

We're all entitled to our opinions, sir. While I may not have an appreciation for this gentleman's work (in this respect), I do credit his entrepreneurial spirit. I personally do not find them damaging to the hobby and very much respect that some do collect and enjoy his work. However, just as you may admire his alterations, there are some of us that do not; it all comes down to individual taste and preferences, so please understand this is nothing more than voicing an opinion; there is no right or wrong.

 

The 1964-D Peace Dollar was never issued. These were struck on real Peace Dollars, the design was not copied. The only thing that was truly altered was the date.

I totally understand.

I like these coins because they fill a void that never really existed. I wouldn't like it if he was creating copies of known to exist rare coins.

 

There is a difference between "copying" someone's product vs. "modifying" someone's product.

I take a genuine original Peace Silver Dollar. I stamp over it to impart a new date which was never originally issued for dollar coins. This is done without adding or removing metal, and without melting or heating. After the over-striking, the coin has the same size, weight, and design it had to start with, but the date (and sometimes the mint mark) is changed.

 

I realize that, but again, this does not change the fact that other than the individual date and a few identifying markers/alterations, it is a copy of the design itself. Would you argue that the 1922 and 1923 versions were (generally speaking) not of the same essential "design"?

Now if we step back to your earlier post in regards to the desire to own something not otherwise possible, let's consider the fact that just because the coins may have never been issued, they did exist. Therefore, and again other than his personal identifiers, the 64-D Peace is a copy of a coin that did exist, at least at one time in history. This gentleman didn't simply pull the idea for this out of the sky.

 

Agreed. It's pointless to continue to rehash this subject. Some folks "appreciate and collect" his efforts while others do not look so favorably upon them. That's their right.

 

Thank You for accepting my invitation. I simply could not stand to see you get bashed on the boardwalk over design issues with the state quarters without you adding the "REAL" Story.

As for Doug's comment,

I found it totally objectionable if not outright slanderous.

 

You are correct...the 1922 and the 1923 are essentially the same design. But, my point is, DC didn't copy anything. It's an over-strike that changed the date...the design was not changed/altered/modified/copied in anyway. It's identical to the coin that was struck by the mint...because it was struck by the mint. Would it be a copy if he simply hand altered the date? No, it would be a modified coin. This is exactly the same...the only difference is the modification was made by striking it. The details of the coin (other than the date) were not changed. That's my only point.

It is true, the 1964-D was never issued...it did exist, but was never available to the public. So, from a collector's stand point...it never existed. That was what I was referring to when I mentioned the desire to own something that never existed.