1964 Kennedy NGC PF67 QDO FS-105 Questions....

Ok, about a year or so ago I bought the following coin :



I always wanted a 64 DDO and this one was a quadruple double die. So I thought it was expensive when I paid around $100 for it. I have only seen one other on FeeBay so I assume they are rare. I checked and there are like 8 NGC and 6 PCGS ones, not sure about ANACS or others, Suffice to say around 20 or so of these have been slabbed. Now there are 1964 MS QDO's but not that many proofs. This one sure is a QDO, as you can see in these pictures of the above coin,





Sorry about the poor pictures but I have a better one but not of this coin, or it was this coin but taken from the eBay ad but I am not sure.



So here is my question, with the rarity of this piece I expected it to be a good investment and a good addition to my collection. Then I came across this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151267377943?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

$950? Really? If this is even close to its value then I have done well but I find it hard to believe that I got one for $100 and it has went up that much.

Does anyone know any more about these? It was not meant to be my most valuable Kennedy but if this ad is any inclination then it is by far.

What do the error collectors think is its actual worth?


Update - there are none in the records at Heritage?? Or FeeBay

 

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That's the asking price, not the price it might sell for. Remember, asking for a million dollars doesn't make it worth a million dollars.

Is that one of those top-secret cert numbers?

 

Understood about price, I just find it odd. As for the number, I cut them out of the pictures. I guess so that the Chinese can not duplicate it.

 

Good excuse. Can I use it?

 

Sure...I heard that is where they get the numbers to fake slabs, but who knows?

 

All current eBay listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Half-Dollars-/11968/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=QDO

All complete eBay listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/Half-Dollars-/11968/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=QDO&LH_Complete=1&rt=nc

As you can see some sold for less than $100, however, they were business strikes and were lower grades. I would imagine that yours is at least worth a little more than what you paid.

I think what goes against you, as far as value is concerned, is that I don't believe this to be a well known variety. Today is the first I'm ever hearing of such a coin even existing.

 

Truth:

The 1964 Proof Kennedy Half Dollar QDO/TDP/DDO/QDR/TDR/DDR have been around for 50 years. Folks knew about them back then and they know about them today.

These high prices are totally registry set driven as once those that need them for their registries have them, the market all but dries up except for those that still need them as there is literally NO PLACE for them, other than in a Registry Set.

Definitely a "specialized variety" with a "specialized market" which is very thin at best as the only way that prices would go up, would be if higher grades were achieved.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the variety as it has distinct doubling which, while not as dramatic as the 55/55 Lincoln, is very dramatic in its own right but there are a lot of different Kennedy Varieties out there.

It's good to hear that you only spent $100 on the coin as, at that price and attribution, it was definitely a good buy. However, expecting $950 for it based upon an ask price of $950 (PCGS Price Guide = $400) is, optimistic.

 

Agreed and I looked at those, the only one that is a proof is this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-ICG-PF...72?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item20d5d58e48


Heck its $1200!

PCGS and NGC only have 12 of these coins graded total and they are all 67 and none is higher. I guess if you add the ICG one, then there are 13 of them. Look at the bottom of the ICG listing.

 

Ah that explains some of it I guess. I never would have thought of that. Since there are only 12 by NGC/PCGS and 1? by ICG, that makes it even more thrilling!

Heck, I would be happy with $400, I assumed it was worth around the $100 I paid for it. That is a win for sure, even if $300.

 

No doubt you got a good deal but as I stated, it'll be a very long time before the right person wanders by to even consider paying $950 for the NGC coin you found.

 

Oh I can understand fully, just like I doubt anyone will pay the $1200 for the ICG one. I just mainly want to tell the wife I won one...I did good...funny thing is, around the same time I paid $185 for a NGC PR67 Accented Hair.....I now think the QDO was the better buy in the long run..

EDIT: Even so, mine is not for sale but maybe one day I would part with it for the right price.

 

Just to clarify a few facts in the Kennedy series:
1. There are no 1964 business strikes QDO.

2. There are two 1964 Proof QDO’s (CONECA DDO-028 & DDO-035). DDO-028 is on an Accented Hair 1964 Proof and DDO-035 in on a normal hair 1964 Proof sometime referred to as FS-105.

3. There is one 1964-D QDO (CONECA DDO-005) sometimes referred to as FS-105.

4. The 1964 Proof DDO-035 is not rare, Wiles estimates that early Proof Kennedy dies would have been used to strike 3,000 – 3,500 coins. The DDO-035 has been found in EDS, MDS and LDS so there is no reason to believe the die didn’t run its full life (It is estimated that business strike dies, if they had no failure, would have been used for 50,000 to 60,000 coins).

5. All slabs are not equal. To many times I have sent coins in for cross over to PCGS in NGC, ANACS or IGC holders and the coin downgraded one or two points.

6. Value, the $100 you paid is a fair price for your coin. The DDO-035 we have in our set graded PR67 at PCGS and we bought it from a collector that knew what he had for $50. The example of 1964 Proof DDO-028 we bought from a dealer attributed only as an “Accented Hair” in a NGC PR68 holder for $90 (the coin downgraded to PR67 when we crossed it over to PCGS).

7. If someone really need this variety to fill a hole in his set, I can picture someone coughing up maybe $200 - $250 only if they see it in hand and think it will cross over to PCGS at PR67.

 

Then what is this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-D-QDO-...60?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4d1c09f9fc

Must be this one,

Agreed.

Ok, but that is a DDO, do you have a population # for it?

Well I would guess so. What I find odd is that ALL NGC and PCGS and the ICG are graded PR67. Strange no?

I guess I do not understand the registry thing but if a person needed one, and there are only 13+ known, would that not be a much pricier coin than $250?

 

There is a difference between a business strike Kennedy half dollar dated 1964 and 1964-D. There are no business strike 1964 Kennedys and 1964-D had one die produce QDO’s.

That is just not true, just at PCGS, they have graded one PR65CAM, six PR67 and one PR68CAM

Most collectors realize that there are more out there just waiting to be found. I would be willing to wage if someone could examine all of the 1964 Proof Kennedy half dollars already in PCGS, NGC, ANACS or ICG plastic, they would find 50 – 100 DDO-035 (FS-105) already graded, just not attributed. Also, your assumption that there are only 13 + known is false; most collectors of varieties do not play the registry game. Those that do play the game do not like to throw good money away and they will wait for a Cameo or Deep Cameo to be found.

An example of this, why do you think this coin went for as much as it did?

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1158&lotNo=4258#68226822428

The winner and the under bidder both knew what it was…. Look closely at the reverse, designers Initials, stars under UNITED STATES. This coin is the DDR-003 of FS-802.

 

I guess I am not understanding that there are NO business strike 64 Kennedy's. My assumption was if not an SMS, mint set, or proof set, then they would be business strikes. These are what I find in bank rolls right?

I did not know that, thanks. I did not look at the PCGS. Come to think of it, mine looks mildly cameo but I am not sure.

Ah that makes sense. I guess I will have to keep my eyes open but it is almost impossible to see the QDO from a ebay picture. You have to zoom pretty close to see it.

I can sure understand that!

Ah that makes sense, and if two knew then the bidding war was on!



So you think fair value is $200 +/- $50?

 

I think Caleb meant there are no business strike 1964 QDOs. Only 2 proof QDOs & a 1964-D QDO.

 

Got it..


Here is a closeup of mine, not too close but enough to see the grade..maybe.

 

Well I found a link. Here is what the value is: $230

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-PROOF-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


http://www.coinsociety.com/auctions/closed/_C4_1619r9_D1lA_A6_86_18/0/0/0/0/0

 

Ethan,

If you want to find out about the history of this variety (DDO-035), send Atrox001 on these forums a PM. Mr. Nienaber is the one that first reported this variety to CONECA and it was probably close to forty years after it was produced.

Also, Mr. Nienaber is the one that submitted this variety for inclusion in the Cherrypickers' Guide

 

So my guess - o - mat of $200 - $250 wasn't that far off?