1965 SMS vs Business Strike

good thread gbroke. I just pulled two '65 kennedy's from a box and wondered if they might be SMS.

 

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and hand grenades.


and sometimes, blind dates.

 

And how drunk you are.

 

Old thread but made me think about some 65 dimes I have in celos and then compaired images on PCGS and could not show an appreciable difference. What is to say that the top pop 65 coins in business strike are business strikes? I have a darn nice looking rosie that does not look proof like and I know is a SMS but looks like a nice business strike. Very confusing set of coins.

 

@gbroke the problem with the coins you posted is that the supposed MS coins you pictured have no cameo contrast whereas the ones that you know for sure are SMS are either heavily contrasted or cameo in the case of the nickel. The problem with SMS coins is that they came in DCAM, CAM, PL and pretty much with a Business Strike look depending on the usage of the dies. DCAM are extremely rare in 65 and few in 66 and compared to both those years common in 67, if there is such a term for any SMS coin. 2 of the coins you pictured are for sure SMS, the other two, could be. The problem with SMS coins is that they were not handled like proof coins, they were pretty much handled like business strikes, that being they weren't handled singly, they were thrown into a hopper and that's why high grade SMS coins are rare.

Hopefully this clouded up the water sufficiently for the rest of you!

 

The thing is, if there's a coin that is a tough call one way or the other, you don't want it to be called a SMS coin. You want it in a business strike holder with a grade like MS68 on it. Unfortunately, there's no way to prove a coin wasn't in an original holder, so TPGs will err on the side of caution (i.e., minimizing their grade liability exposure) and call what could be an uber-gem business strike an SMS coin.

If, however, you can show the dies used to make the coin were used for business strikes and not known for SMS coins, you have evidence on your side. The CONECA doubled die listings are good for this.

 

Just bought me a 65 DCAM I hope, at least on the Obverse so it might go star. Deep mirrors. Bought it off a guy that I have bought others from.......