1962 British Columbia 20 Dollar Trial Piece

I joined this forum because I recently inherited some items formerly owned by a California engraver and I would like to determine their value. I have found it difficult to estimate the value through other research as most of the items are not circulated coins. The particular one I am looking for assistance valuing appears to be a trial or proof piece for the 1862 BC 20 dollar. The piece is the wrong size (1 5/16")to be an actual minted coin for BC, but I am very confident of its authenticity as a trial piece for the actual 20 dollar coin. It is signed by the engraver, under the ribbon tied around the oak branches. As for condition, I have no basis to judge as I am not a numatist . The strike seems very good, there appears a little scratching on the back, and there is minimal scuffing on the relief. The conditions seems commensurate with the fact that this coin was not circulated. I am uncertain of the metal composition. It has a yellow tint to it.

 

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post a picture of it.

 

Here are a few photos. The last is my attempt to capture the signature.

 

Okay, let me try that again... (the "how to post a photo" instructions seem to be outdated)

 

I will try to find more out about it.
here's 1 link I found: http://www.coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins?main_coin=11028

 

2nd link that tells more about it. link: http://monasheealmanac.homestead.com/1-Worldin1862/6-GoldandMoneyin1862-1.html

 

more about it: http://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins-articles.php?article=newfoundland,-two-dollars,-1870&id=364

 

if yours is real it's worth a fortune.

 

here are some fakes: http://bc150.ecuad.ca/museum/01_04.html your has the engravers initials making me think it's authentic and very rare.

 

get it authenticated by PCGS or NGC third party grading companies.

 

and welcome to CT.

 

There was a moment when I too thought I had something worth a very great deal. But, then i was brought back to reality. I've been told that I don't own an actual circulated coin, but just a test piece made by the engraver. The key support is the fact that my coin is too small to be an actual 1962 BC 20 dollar piece. (I am not positive about that fact since I can't find a source giving me the size of the real 20 dollar coins. Unfortunately the pages you pointed me too (thanks!), while informative, did not give the size of the coins. Do numismatic guide books list dimensions and weight?)

That being said, I am very certain the coin is an authentic test piece or proof for the actual coins. So, it may be even more rare than the actual coins. Yet, rare does not always equate to value. In this case, however, there is, I think, also the added aspect of historical interest.

 

ok I found your "Pattern" coin is in my 19th Century 1801-1900 Standard Catalog of World Coins. mintage-5 pieces total!!!
Pn#4 Bowers and Merena Norweb sale 11-96 specimen 61 realized $143,000
David Akers Pittman sale 8-99, realized $149,500
yours could be 1 of the 5 worth $150,000.00+ wow amazing. that's huge
is yours 34-35 millimeters in size ? it did not give me the size or weight in my book but I did measure the picture in my book looked 34mm if I did it right could be 35mm. what is your size ?

 

Oh, I forgot to add a small detail. In addition to the size difference, my coin also does not appear to be made out of gold or silver. So, again, it's unlikely to be more than a proof.

 

I think it is gold. you NEED to get it authenticated. what is the size of your pattern coin in millimeters ? 34-35 ?

 

You have my attention. Now, can I borrow your metric ruler? Okay, let me do some math... My coin is 1 5/16", or 1.315" Multiply by 2.54... That is 3.33, or 33mm. So, yes it probably is the listed size (if accurately measured with a metric ruler).

But, I wonder if "pattern" in the catalog is used to refer to the fact that the actual coins were samples for the BC government. I hate to be the skeptic of the value of my own coin, but I note that in the literature you pointed me to it says,

"Specimens of the new coins were sent to Great Britain but the whole plan met with immediate disapproval."

And on another web page,

"A few sample ten dollar coins were struck and some were sent to Douglas with the intention of sending them to the International Exhibition being held in London that year. At first Douglas said no since he had not given final permission for the mint to be set up and was no longer in favour of the plan. Gosset prevailed and finally got Douglas to agree to allow eighteen $10 and ten $20 pieces to be struck for the exhibition. The coins were sent to the Commissioner for B.C in London to be shown at the exhibition, then to be melted down for bullion....The few specimens of these coins known today were probably test pieces purchased by some senior members of the government as souvenirs. These patterns could not be called official coinage as no permission had been given by the Crown to strike coins in British Columbia."

So, are the BC 20 dollar coins that are currently recognized actually considered "patterns" and the reference in your catalog is to the actual ones produced by Gosset, not proofs like the one I have? Or, are there several surviving coins from the Gosset experiment, plus a few proofs made during the process of engraving/minting?

If nothing else, the question of what I have supports the historical interest aspect. Holding the coin I have, I can almost hear Gosset's big coins clinking on Douglas' mahogany desk as he and Douglas argue about the colony's need for coining currency.

Thanks for your help so far.

 

Yes, you have convinced me of that. But, I should note that I have already seen one dealer, who made the observation that the coin is very likely a proof (again relying on the size and the substance). I have no reason to doubt his expertise and honesty. The dimensions you gave me do make me more interested. The dealer acknowledged that it is difficult to appraise the value of non-circulated coins (hence me turning to this forum). So, getting a second opinion on the value of the coin, if only a proof or test piece, is probably a sound suggestion.

 

I am guessing that specimens ..meaning "pattern" coin were sent for approval. I still have a strong feeling your "pattern" coin is authentic and worth $150,000.00. my excitement for you is off the charts. Take it to a major large coin show and have it looked at. I would get many more opinions.

 

if you do get it authenticated by PCGS or NGC get it insured.

 

do you live in United States ? the reason for me asking this ...is to point you to the closest Large Coin Show in your area.