Should I grant an eBay refund for a coin received 21 days ago?

And the way you do it is immoral. You are scamming people. You can trying and slither your way out from under that fact...but it's the truth.

 

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How in the world did you get to be a moderator? What a joke!

 

I've seen you go off on other members of CT before. Way to let this continue, you other moderators!

 

Just how deep will you dig your hole, C-B-D? Keep digging, the bottom is nowhere in sight!
You cannot justify your wrong doing by trying to (falsely) point out the wrongdoing of others.

 

Wow... uh, huh.

 

I'm still perplexed at why we as collectors are letting the TPGs get away with what they are doing.

They are harming the hobby as much as crooked sellers in some respects.

We have let them determine what is or is not market acceptable, and they are in the wrong position to be doing that when their interests are aligned with the business side and making money.

Just like how 'cleaning' was market acceptable back in the day, the same thing is happening now. The TPGs are moving the goal posts, and frequently, to keep their pockets padded. If you can't see that, then you need to wake up a little.

I see the common excuse that they are only reflecting what the 'market' wants. In reality they can make these little differences without too many folks noticing. And they are setting the market anyway. Too many people enter this hobby without the correct information and have no way of knowing how or why the TPG standards have evolved the way they have. In short they don't know any better than what's on the outside of that slab. And if it really is 'the market saying what is acceptable' that's mostly due to uneducated buyers, or crooked sellers looking to make more money by iffy coins. The TPG should be a safety net and bastion of fairness and objectivity, not seeing an opportunity to make more money and confusing people.

How many people rely on the TPGs opinion ONLY? Too many is the answer to that question.

With all that in mind, I wouldn't be too trusting with what they put on a coin. Especially due to some make believe subjective term like gradeflation or MA that allows them to blame the collectors wants and needs on why everyone is now in a frenzy to send them their coins back for a regrade to get that new better grade. They are doing untold damage to this hobby and are disguised as white knights.

C-B-D, an easy solution is to just reiterate any problems at the bottom of the description field. If you are so inclined b

 

I'm just wondering in say 50 years when all of these 'market acceptable' coins are possibly rejected by a slew of savvy collectors and the hatred and resentment sets in for people getting hosed on coins that should have never been slabbed.

How does no one see this as a very real possibility, especially with the power they hold over the hobby.

It's comparable to a shady seller cracking out a coin and selling it for something it isn't, except we are supposed to have a lot more faith in these companies than dealers.

All I know is that as a buyer, it is MY, and only MY responsibility to make sure I'm not taken advantage of. Whether that be CBD, LD, NGC, PCGS, DLRC, or anyone else.

 

I have selectively quoted your post...but I did it to make a point. I think the answer to your first statement is in the other statement from your post. It is being allowed because too many people are relying on them and not on their own ability. It's far easier to allow them to make a determination (and not learn to do it yourself). I also think in the age of internet sales...when you can't view a coin in hand, they are a big help.

I personally believe that the TPGs have a place in this hobby...but I also believe that far too many collectors blindly follow them and refuse to learn to grade an analyze coins on their own.

 

I think that history has shown that the grading trend of coins has become looser over the years...not stricter. I don't see that trend changing in the foreseeable future...unfortunately.

 

Indeed you are correct. It all falls back to me.........

 

I will give you a very good example of what I am talking about.

I just purchased an 1891 quarter in AU-58 as graded by PCGS, in their new 3-prong holder, so relatively recent.

The coin looks great, plenty of luster, nice surfaces, and good eye appeal for my tastes.

Now there were plenty of photos and I trusted the seller and PCGS' opinion.

I get the coin, I quite happy with my initial inspection, UNTIL I turn it over for reverse inspection. There is a very clear X cut into the coin. It's small and barely noticeable, but its there. Right to the left of eagles head directly below the ribbon.

There is no way possible this was from 'wear' it intersects perfectly and is pretty symmetrical.

Now PCGS should have NEVER slabbed this coin to begin with. There is a problem and it was man made, either by staples or by intention. Who knows but that should've kept this coin from being graded hands down. Yet here it is, clear as day.

The seller is a reputable dealer and I haven't decided my course of action, but nowhere in his description did he say that it was damaged. A truly good seller, just like in an auction catalog, would have denoted any and all visible issues.

 

If he's reputable, he'll accept a return.

 

You are right, in fact we are right.

My point is that the TPG, with all the trust they have from the collectors should be setting the example. Not bending to the will of unsavvy, uneducated buyers.

THEY are the experts, not us collectors as a whole. (Although there are many collectors who ARE experts, but they would stay away from problem coins to begin with)

That's my gripe. They should be firm in their standards and keep their integrity. Not chase the dollar and play games to get more money in their pockets.

 

It's entirely possible he missed it. But, if he is truly a reputable seller...he will accept a return no questions asked. If you don't like the coin now that you see it in hand, return it.

 

Starting with my listings tonight. I will.

 

While I agree with you...I don't think it's quite that simple. I think that these companies offer a service and to a certain degree they must make their clients happy. Unfortunately for the hobby, it seems to me that most people want their coins graded with good grades. I think this is why the market has caused grading to change. I don't think this is driven by the TPGs, I think it's driven by the consumers...the TPGs are just trying appease them.

Not that that's any better.

 

If he was TRULY reputable, he would have mentioned it.

I say this all the time. I am in the food service industry, but this applies to any industry where you have multiple folks trying to sell you the same thing.

When a competitor comes in and offers me lower prices to do business with them, the number one thing they do is try to just undercut the other vendor. Usually they ask for an invoice (which is illegal to give out btw) from the other company and will set their prices a few dollars or cents cheaper.

I always without exception do not let them get those invoices because that is their only goal. I find out who the truly reputable ones are by withholding the current vendors info and actually letting them quote me their best price. That way I see if they really want my business by and I know what their real prices are without them just trying to lowball the other vendor.

Point being the truly honest and reputable will win out in the long run because you don't have to chase them down to make things better. They are already giving you the best deal/service possible.

Same way with a coin dealer, be upfront and honest, and you don't have to worry about your integrity and constantly protecting your name.

 

It's entirely possible he missed it. But, if he is willing to accept a return he is TRULY reputable.

 

Please stop this.

 

It's not any better.

It's like someone coming in for dental work from you and telling you exactly how to do the procedure, even though they have no education in dentistry and no clue how to do what you do.

Sorry but the experts are who we should be trusting. Not the uneducated masses.

The behavior you are describing is nothing more than the TPGs chasing the almighty dollar. They would have truly loyal customers if they picked a standard and stick by it. But not just their own, an industry standard that was widely accepted and put forth by the experts.