Should I grant an eBay refund for a coin received 21 days ago?

Well, well, well rzage... isn't this interesting? What have you been doing with all your cracked out and dipped coins? Care to share your auction results? Found any good, sneaky ways to slip your problem coins to other collectors, or even to your LCS? I just love the way you hide behind your self-righteousness. How precious...

http://www.numissociety.com/showthr...-CRACK-A-COIN-FROM-A-SLAB-IS-THERE-A-SAFE-WAY

http://www.cointalk.com/threads/dip-or-not-dip.36986/

 

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Is he cracking and fluffing DRECK for the sole purpose of making the greatest possible profit? You know well that there is a difference between a collector cracking a coin in his collection and what you're doing.

 

Here's a thread from one of our moderators! He sent in a coin, which came back cleaned from PCGS. Cracked it out and sent it to NGC and it came back graded. Hmm. You mean to tell me he doesn't have an improperly cleaned coin? What?!? He wouldn't sell that as problem free, would he? How low-down!

Or did he simply disagree with the TPG as I did about the rim filing? I certainly don't dispute the cleaning on that trade dollar, but I do dispute the rim filing.

http://www.cointalk.com/threads/1803-10-gold-guess-the-grade.235529/page-2#post-1779118

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with cracking out slabbed coins...people do it all the time. It's when people crack out problem coins and sell them as problem free there's an issue. Also, dipping coins if properly done has long been an acceptable thing to do.

 

Prove he's not passing them off. Go ahead and be naive Books. Feels good doesn't it? Warm, happy feelings.

 

LostDutchman will sell that $10 gold as problem free, even though it has been improperly cleaned according to the best at PCGS.

 

The TPGs are the experts in the field and what is considered market acceptable is an evolving thing. There are many coins out there that one day a TPG might call cleaned and the next they won't. But, if the coin is certified problem free by a major TPG (which means PCGS or NGC only)...then they consider it market acceptable. There is nothing wrong with selling the coin as such. Had your Trade Dollar been submitted to NGC and called problem free...nobody here would have an issue with it.

 

Well, NGC disagrees...and they are every bit as good as PCGS. Old gold is also held to special standards, a very light cleaning that doesn't affect the eye appeal is often considered OK. If the coin did not cross into a problem free NGC holder...he would not have cracked it out and sold it as a problem free raw coin I can guarantee you.

 

Actually I would have a huge problem with that and that is my biggest gripe over TPGs. Yeah they are great for ensuring a coin is authentic, but with this 'market acceptable' crap they keep changing the goal posts.

If the coin is a problem coin, no matter how small, it needs to be noted. After all that's what y'all are saying about the sellers. To be forthright with ALL pertinent information for the betterment of this hobby.

But it's acceptable for the TPGs to not declare problems, and even further, to label these coins as if they truly are problem free.

There really needs to be an industry standard that is more than just a guideline.

 

And I do not dispute the cleaning on my trade dollar, WHICH IS WHY I LISTED THE PROBLEM. I do not agree with the rim filing, however. But I guess I'm a crook for having a different opinion than ICG...

 

Ironic isn't it? Especially when then very people blasting you don't even trust ICG themselves for the most part.

 

Finally, someone with some sense! Absolutely LOVE the double-standards here.

 

It's entirely possible that in hand, that gold coin looks great. If that's the case, it's up to the graders to determine if it has been lightly cleaned or not. On some coins, it's very hard to tell...perhaps the first time it was graded the graders were on the fence and leaned towards cleaned and then the second time a different set of graders...also on the fence leaned the other way. Grading is quite subjective and sometimes it can be very close on cleaned vs not cleaned.

What double standard are you talking about? That gold coin made it into a problem free slab of a major TPG. With your coin...although you did mention it was cleaned you did so in a very subtle manner.

If you are so adamant that you did everything right...why did you crack it out to begin with?

 

I listed it EXACTLY as eBay tells me to list it... their seller outreach team... remember? And I cracked it out because most buyers don't even look at ICG coins because they're such a joke! Mr. Camaro... blind to it all. You're my hero. I want to be just like you.

 

Oh I understand HOW it happens. Still doesn't make it right. Obviously the first graders decided they seen something to warrant the details. That 'issue' didnt magically disappear.

So there is a coin out there in a problem free holder, that someone we are SUPPOSED to trust has blurred the lines on and allowed in a problem free holder. LD isn't the first example and surely not the last, but he is a DIRECT example of what we complain about when coins keep getting submitted in hopes for a better or problem free grade when the seller already knows there is a problem.

I get grading is subjective, but the TPGs are playing a game too. They hide under the guise of giving the customer what they want and moving the goal posts for market acceptability to absolve themselves of being good stewards of this hobby, especially given the reliance and trust in them, all for the almighty dollar.

If they were truly a bastion of hope for objectivity for this hobby, they would grade the coins based on the coin's merits alone and forget this 'market acceptable', 'gradeflation', give the customer what they want to keep them spending money crap.

That's the double standard, you rip a seller, but not the TPGs who are in a FAR better position to effect this hobby as a whole.

 

The one where anyone else can disagree with a TPG and crack it out, but I'm the greatest of sinners because I did... AND STILL SOLD IT AS CLEANED.

 

I'm not blind to anything. I see exactly what you did. You took a problem coin out of a problem holder (despite the fact that ICG is not a high end TPG) and listed the coin for sale as raw. You highlighted it as being AU+ nearly MS in your title and very quietly listed it as cleaned in your text.

You did this because you believed the coin would sell for more this way that it would in the problem slab.

Hmm, you are the first person to call me "Mr" in quite some time...interesting.

 

It's true...the issue they saw may not have disappeared. But, perhaps faded due to toning. Your argument could condemn any toned coin in a slab as any could be hinding some kind of surface damage. The fact that one expert decided it was cleaned but a different expert decided it wasn't cleaned should tell you something. IF it is a cleaned coin, it is extremely minimal.