eBay Opening a Can of Worms?

Well, according to this posting on the eBay boards, a buyer can submit a PCGS graded coin to NGC, and if the grades don't match, he (the buyer) can open a case.

http://community.ebay.com/t5/2014-S...BY-BOTH-PARTIES-OR-FACE-POSSIBLE/m-p/19866180

Thoughts?

 

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I don't know what to even think of this.

 

I like the follow-up comment on the link: "There must be a better place to sell graded coins."

 

I'm hoping this isn't accurate and that poster somehow got his facts confused or something. If not, this is just bizarre.

What's next...if you buy a raw coin that isn't given a numeric grade (such as "VF") and it comes back from PCGS as F12 you have to accept a return. They'd probably make the seller pay the grading fees too.

 

First off, his 2 week return policy never was meaningful. On top of that, I could even see PCGS coin not getting the same grade at PCGS. I could sort of see those being returnable. But cameo and CAC is just over the top.

 

I personally have a hard time believing this story. The more I think about it, the more implausible it seems.

 

eBay's policies are anything but consistent. They recognize the 4 TPG's, but not within each other? Blow up the thread with other places to sell then.

 

I wonder if they will force you to return an ICG coin if PCGS doesn't agree with the grade. If that's the case...a lot of coins might be returned.

 

And if he submits it to NGC and comes back a grade higher, does he need to pay the seller whatever the book value difference is?

 

One solution is to refund this awful buyer, block them, then start a list of these buyers so all of us can block them.

 

Seems it would be impossible to enforce as mot sellers block out the serial numbers identifying the coin info on slabs. There would be no way to prove the claim unless they ban blocking the code. In which case I'd not sell on Ebay.

 

No they don't. IOn fact eBay requires that the serial number be clearly shown for certified coins.

 

first, i think this is ridiculous. ebay is getting out of control.

second, ebay is going to continue getting away with ridiculous policies such as this unless enough people DO SOMETHING about this.

third, i think that if enough people worked together and made ebay feel it in their pockets, and for example, agreed to not purchase any numismatic items on a given day, change would be possible.

fourth, point number three will never happen because no one (at least not from this forum) is going to sit back on "shun-ebay-day" and watch their long hunted item about to close at $0.99 without bidding.

 

While I sympathize with the comments above, you guys just can't seem to grasp the FACT that eBay is run by a bunch of MORONS. In my 11 years of listing, I have discovered end-runs around most of their nonsense, but at the end of the day, do not be surprised at anything they do.

Well over 90% of my listings are items that will sell for $20 or less, so the damage is minimal from a screw-up.

 

Well, when I decide to sell the slabbed coins in my collection I shall rent a table at the local show and sell them there, thereby making more money and avoiding the idiots that don't agree with the grade. Too bad the guy didn't have enough money to sue Ebay over this stupid thing. That may be the only way they learn anything.

 

Here is my perspective on this situation. Issue the refund, block the buyer, recoup FVF, relist the coin and have a drink. The number of E-Bay buyers who would go to this length to return a coin are so small that when you run into one, you simply do what it takes to get rid of them, permanently. The fact is that I make money on E-Bay. If I have to endure a certain level of injustice in order to make that money, I will!

Paul

 

Whatever happened to caveat emptor....

 

Better solution do what I do boycott ebay and find other alternitives I buy a lot of coins and some real good ones and do sell some too but am for now primarily a collector at least of coins I find much of what's on feebay to be fake overpriced damaged or plain crap me I buy from ha stacks bowers here on ct and from a few coin dealers I've met here and at local estate auctions and may start if time and money permits going to a few coin shows and from the responses I've gotten from many of you the last year (thanks!!) I don't have a bunch of junk and I've run an antique business for 20 years and feebay has done nothing but hurt me my final straw was getting paid with a bad check then having the buyer leaving repeated negative feedback after I refused to ship due to their bad check (which bounced both times I tried to cash it!) and ebay taking their side!!!! I immediately canceled my account and vowed to never do business there again (2005) I have nothing good to say about the company

 

Sadly there are no other good alternatives to eBay... They simply have the market share on buyers. I sell 6 figures a year there and it's just the only place that consistently has the buyers to move that amount of inventory.

 

I just can't believe ebay would do this......well, I guess THAT'S a ridiculous statement, huh? They do what they want, when they want (gotta keep their people busy, and gotta fix things that aren't broken until they ARE broken). I just don't know how can they justify making a seller who sold an NGC MS65 Morgan, accept it back in a PCGS MS64 holder???? It's plain unacceptable....the SELLER won't be getting back the coin he sold, and get stuck with a lower graded coin??? Will they allow a SELLER to file a SNAD on the return??? If that NGC coin has a green bean, and that same coin coming back a grade lower in a PCGS slab with NO bean, man, that'll just blow up in ebay's face!!! But then again, it IS ebay, and as has been said, it's run by a bunch of morons, and they just won't care. Maybe EBAY should start their OWN grading service, and treat all other TPG graded coins as they do with the 3rd world grading co's now??? Should they go forward with this alleged new rule, this will for certain drive possible future collectors away, and leave bad tastes in the mouths of current collectors, should they go ahead with this insane rule.

It IS a great place to get rid of unwanted STUFF. Make a few bucks instead of tossing something in a trash can? That's what ebay seems to be slowly becoming. That being said, it IS a great place to get rid of unwanted stuff (lol), as the unwanted stuff is more likely just accepted, unless it's just totally bogus (think of a used laptop being sold as a working unit, and it won't even power up when received). But, this possible hassle with coins is just ridiculous, if it comes to fruition. There are sellers selling fakes, copies w/out the word 'COPY' stamped on it, and they are left alone until someone reports it (especially if it's spotted by the new 'Coin Marshalls' over on CU...man, that place is going downhill on a thick sheet of ice...that 1868LargeCent character, seems the only reason he/she joined is to be THE ebay 'coin cop' and trying to rally a posse, and just wants to clutter the place with fakes to be reported.....as he/she said, before editing a post, 'Let's get 'em!'...utterly ridiculous for a coin discussion forum). Don't get me wrong, fakes SHOULD be reported, but dayum, that member does nothing but scour ebay for any/all fakes, clutters the forum there with them...and humorously, some have been proven to be legitimately unreportable, as they are either authentic coins, or are listed where they should be (such as the 'fantasy' category, with the D. Carr stuff....but that's a separate discussion), therefore not actually being fakes.

Ebay DESPERATELY needs people that KNOW about NUMISMATICS (better odds of hitting Powerball than THAT happening). Seems the same people that gauge Beanie Babies are governing the coin offerings...they can't be treated the same. Early on, they allow ANY self slabber (think SGS) to sell coins with grades in the title and call them graded...they quashed that, then insisted that the only top TPG's can have a grade included in the title....then decided that they had to have pop reports and the like, unless they wanted their coins lumped in with SGS coins, basically treated as raw. While I think ICG is very subpar as they overgrade most everything, as well as grade most ANYTHING, save for wooden nickels, which has been proven on another site, they shouldn't be treated as raw. They ARE in the top 4, so, why exempt them until they had pops? I know people who submit to ICG, but I NEVER met anyone who submitted a coin to SGS. NOW, they are going to let one TPG determine if another's grade is correct, and if it doesn't cross, the seller must refund? That is just plain nuts. There is almost ALWAYS a difference of opinion between them, whether it's a CAM vs non CAM, different grade, genie or not.....ebay is the 800 lb gorilla (as I mentioned in another thread), but that gorilla needs some Xanax, in major doses.

Though one has to admit, there are STILL a few gems to be found on ebay, it's not an every day occurrence any longer. GreatCollections is fast becoming a great place to buy, though you'll hardly get a 'rip' like you used to be able to find on ebay and on TT (which went down the toilet fast), and now that they sold out, boy, the pickings are slim. I haven't visited the TT site (what is it now, S&B owned?) since, wow, can't remember. Heritage is another alternative, but deep pockets are needed for a good portion of their offerings. It's tough being a collector if you want to do more than fill albums (not that there is anything wrong with that, plenty prefer raw coins), unless you have the kind of $$ needed to buy from, say, Legend, or CRO, or the like. It's as if those collectors (I'm one of them) who don't have bundles of cash, have to go back to the old way it used to be done.....by checking your pocket change and popping it into a Whitman blue folder. Ebay is no longer an 'auction' site, but an Amazon-type place to buy at fixed prices. VERY few are willing to take a chance and start at $0.99 any longer, which used to be the standard. I can fully understand not wanting to take a bath, but either auction it off properly, and take a chance, or consign it.

Though, as LostDutchman says, "They simply have the market share on buyers". Unfortunately, it's true. If it gets any tougher, there's going to be a generation, more sooner than later, that just won't be interested in the hobby if things don't settle down across the board....especially if ebay is serious about requiring a seller to accept a return on a coin that WAS housed in an NGC 65 holder and downgrades to a 64 in a PCGS holder. Not to mention the great disparity in grading turnaround times at certain times.... how long do they expect a return policy to be, 12 months? You can't leave feedback after what, 30 days???? Buyers will be throwing negs around like candy even before grades get posted, then they'll still expect a refund, and get it!! As was brought up, what if a coin DOES upgrade? Is the seller privy to get in on some of the 'bump' $$? Does anyone here think ebay will enforce something like that, the flip side of this new rule??? Survey says......NAHHHHHH! It's just insane if they really do make this a rule. THAT in itself will send sellers of graded coins begging for an alternative (not that they aren't now) with the ability to get the market share the size of ebay (hell, half the size would be acceptable), and the hobby desperately needs it, but odds are, it may/will never materialize.

With Amazon now selling the Saddle Ridge Hoard coins, if coins become a viable category there, you will see even FEWER slabbed coins being legitimately auctioned (not that many are now), and we'll have to expect nothing but fixed prices, basically turning the coin category of ebay into a mini Amazon, and welcome Amazon to the coin hobby as a new source. If you have a good, fair B&M (or can find one, which have been going the way of the dinosaur for years), count your blessings. Ebay will become a place for raw, $20 max coins, and that'll be about it (nothing wrong with $20 coins, don't get me wrong). Dansco's are going to start looking mighty attractive at that point, if the hobby can survive it (those without bundles of $$ make up the majority of collectors, more or less, I'd imagine). It will for certain drive possible future collectors away, and leave bad tastes in the mouths of current collectors, should ebay force this new rule into effect.

Damn, stamps may just see a resurgence yet. Oh, I forgot, they grade THOSE, too.....will ebay pull the same TPG vs TPG crap they are allegedly doing with coins, with stamps (or even sports cards...Beckett grades a card 9.5, PSA gets it, grades it 9.0, seller takes the bath???)...I can just see it happening, and it'll collapse like a house of cards in a hurricane....but EBAY WON'T CARE. It's enough to make a coin collector want to sell everything, and just stack bullion. Sorry for the rant, but when will this nonsense stop???