Go home kid.

Well, it's become obvious to me that I can't play with the big boys over at CNG. After carefully calculating my finances and arriving at the largest sum I could bid on a rare Nabataean, I came in second place. Again.

C'est la vie. I wish I knew these guys that were dropping wads of Franklins on Nabataeans. We could have a serious partay. Anyway, I'll just go back to playing with my junk.

Speaking of which, Santa Claus did deliver three coins today. Here's a composite which includes the Gordian III sestertius I've already posted, but it's fun to compare the sizes.

Coin 2 is a scarce Nabataean bronze with the head of Obodas II on the obverse, with the letter heth, which probably stands for Aretas IV. The reverse has a typical crossed cornucopiae design with the letter shin, which stands for Syllaeus - a powerful Nabataean politico. Only a collector of Nabataeans would appreciate the significance of this scarce coin that exhibits both monograms and a strong portrait of the king.

Coin 3 is an earlier Bust/Nike type of Style II. This is not the coin I ordered, but it fits into my collection very nicely, and returning it to UAE is just too much trouble. I am going to email the seller, though, and ask him to sell me the coin I ordered.

Coin 4 is the jital I posted in another thread, and I was pleasantly surprised at how much I liked this $15 coin.

 

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It might be interesting to see the CNG coin that you lost, and know a little more about the auction and the amount of the winning bid.

 

Ive never bid on CNG coins only because hardly ever go within this blue collar budgets price range.

Im stuck with the slums like Ebay and on occasion, Vauctions.

 

https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=253537

 

Wow, that went way over...

 

CNG's estimates are bogus. Everything always goes way over. They are to be completely ignored.

 

That seems about right. Many auction coins are "estimated" well below their actual value. This serves two purposes: it entices bidders, and it gives the auction house some wiggle room. If we estimate it high, and it doesn't sell, consignors complain. We estimate low, and it sells for what would be the minimum bid at a higher estimate, everyone is happy.

 

There is a feature of estimates that escapes me. Estimates serve two purposes. In addition to being a guess for a reasonable sale price, they set a starting bid usually 60% or 80% of the estimate depending on the auction house rules. Lets say I am selling my collection and want to sell it all. If the house estimates my coins too high, there may be some coins that do not get a minimum bid so they don't sell. I'll be unhappy with the house when they fail to sell. Lets say they estimate high and a bidder or ten looks at the lot but decides not to bid because the coin is not worth that much. The ideal sale situation is where each lot gets many bids and two or more of them are strong. The worst scenario is where each lot gets one bid for ten times the estimate but the lot sells for the minimum because every one else gave up before it started. It is a business. Lower estimates sell coins.

 

Doug, from that description, it seems like you actually understand pretty well. I wish all consignors understood it as well as you do!

 

Um, yeah. I like underappreciated coins myself, but I would honestly say I would not pick that coin out of a $20 junkbox. OTOH almost no one here would pick the Sogdian crud I collect out of the same junk box.

 

Yeah, but evidently many Europeans do not agree. I have seen 80% start bid on high estimates at many auctions nowadays.

 

It certainly played a role in my Agathokles tet. The low estimate lured me into becoming emotionally attached to the coin even though I knew the estimate was wildly low.

 

That Byzantion stater in the last CNG auction had me going when it was $1500 or less. I admit its a great way to get people dreaming.

 

I admit that "usually" the hammer seems to fall far beyond the estimate (example => my first wagon coin)

However, I did score one wagon-coin "under" the estimate (shwinnngg!!)

The other two were only slightly over the estimates ...

Since I'm not shy, and I don't actually know any of you anyway, I'll lay today's auction-cards on the table:

Wagon-1 => estimate $150 => hammer $475 (ouch, I know!! ... but I love the coin and I've lost too many of these SCRABBLE coins, so I splurged!!)

Wagon-2 => estimate $100 => hammer $60 (cha-chiiinnnggg!! ... apparently, a coin that only a mother-fer could love?)

Wagon-3 => estimate $100 => hammer $130 (still, not that bad ... well, if you like my coin)

Wagon-4 => estimate $200 => hammer $220 (again, I felt okay snagging this baby ... as always, but only if you like the coin)

Wagon-Coin Summary => estimate $550 => hammer $885

=> $1070 after taxes and shipping (17.5% tax and shipping to Canada)

($1070/$550) x 100 => 195%

stevex6 Summary => hold-on to your underpants, brothers, you're probably gonna pay "at least" twice as much as the estimate!!

 

Eh, CNG is not nearly as off on their estimates as the infamous Gorny and Mosch group lots. I have bid 8 times estimate on those and not even been close. I think my closest win on one of those was "only" 3.5 times estimate.

 

17.5% tax!?!?!?!

 

...i'm in the slums with mat. i have started window shopping a bit more ant CNG.

 

It's the Buyer's Fee. It varies from auction house to auction house.

 

I found that to be true with my first G&M foray. Didn't know beforehand, hadn't investigated their typical estimate vs reality. Spent two weeks plotting, prioritizing, strategizing... intending to pick up 2-3 large mixed lots. I was quickly blown out of the water and felt shell-shocked afterwards.

17.5% is the buyers fee-- the auction house's 'tax'. I've seen them as low as 10% and as high as 21.5%. It adds up pretty quickly, especially if you are also dealing with an unfavorable exchange rate.

For instance, Roma (London). For a US buyer, between the buyers fee, current exchange rate, and shipping you'll end paying almost twice the hammer price.

 

Commas would have helped. In the time I have been in the hobby, I have seen a few changes in the way sellers are compensated. Now it is fashionable for an auction to hammer down a coin at a price and then (all explained in the rules not everyone reads but said they read before bidding) tacks on an increasing percentage we call buyer's premium. On top of that, some tack on a fee for using Pay Pal, a credit card, a check, bidding by phone or whatever. Then there are taxes required by jurisdictions including the Value Added Tax which Americans don't know but Europeans do. Postage is added and is not a small number if you are talking International Registered post. The Buyer's Premium thing seems like a rip off to buyers but it enables consignors to avoid heart attacks when they see how much of their $1000 hammer price got siphoned off to pay for the salaries of Ardatirion and the janitor who cleans the floor at the auction house. It really makes no difference whether the house charges 20% extra as long as you remember to bid 20% less. My last purchase from Pecunem ended up being 1/3 add ons over and above the hammer price. I suspect some of the coins I lost went to people who bid $100 for a $100 coin and wondered why their bill was $130.

This is why I like shows better than auctions. When you see a coin at a show that is listed at $100, you rarely pay more than $100. It is like Buyer's Premium in reverse. You say, "Can you take $60 for that?" The seller does not even have to know what the coin is. He does not have to photograph it or pay someone to look it up in catalogs that he probably doesn't own anyway. Between 1988 and 2000(13 years), I bought 70 coins from CNG; between 2001 and the present (13 years more) I bought two more coins (computerized record make statistics so much fun!). As more and more of you are willing to pay more and more for the services of full service dealers with professional staffs and ridiculous overhead costs, I doubt this will change. It is not by any means just CNG but all dealers who rarely sell a coin for as little as $100 and who have plenty of buyers willing to pay $130 (or $330) for a $100 coin.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with auctions charging buyer's premiums and absolutely nothing wrong with you figuring out how much the coin will cost you before you bid.

Fun with statistics: The first coin I bought from CNG (then "Victor England") was $116. The most recent coin in 2010 was also $116 (both including postage and premiums if any). Go figure.