Gold coin hoard found

How could they possibly tie these gold pieces to the gold stolen from the mint. There is no way...none, that could be proven.

 

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more info http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/2...gold-find-to-owe-govt-about-half-report-says/


this is why they havent come foward

"
The San Francisco Chronicle reports that the find is a taxable event under a 1969 federal court ruling that held a "treasure trove" is taxable the year it was discovered.

"If you find and keep property that does not belong to you that has been lost or abandoned (treasure-trove), it is taxable to you at its fair market value in the first year it is your undisputed possession,” the report said, citing the IRS tax guide."

and the waited a wile to mention anything.

"Kagin and McCarthy would say little about the couple's property or its ownership history, other than it's in a sprawling hilly area of Gold Country and the coins were found along a path the couple had walked for years. On the day they found them last spring, the woman had bent over to examine an old rusty can that erosion had caused to pop slightly out of the ground."

intresting

"
whoever put them into the ground likely socked them away as soon as they were put into circulation.
Because paper money was illegal in California until the 1870s, he added, it's extremely rare to find any coins from before that of such high quality.

"It wasn't really until the 1880s that you start seeing coins struck in California that were kept in real high grades of preservation," he said.

The coins, in $5, $10 and $20 denominations, were stored more or less in chronological order, McCarthy said, with the 1840s and 1850s pieces going into one canister until it was filed, then new coins going into the next one and the next one after that."

 

Yup. No matter how you receive money, or spend it, there is always tax. For some odd reason they call it "freedom".

 

The mint kept meticulous records, unless of course they were somehow destroyed by fire or earthquake.

 

Freedom isn't free Tim...there is a price to live here. Some of us have to pay it.

...and those records would be able to prove that these coins were the stolen coins. Do these coins somehow have unique serial numbers or some other identifying marks?

 

That makes perfect sense. If they find this and it's worth $10 million...that is $10 million in income which would be taxable.

 

Circumstantial would be good enough in this case, dates corresponding to lost coin lists and what was found and processed.

It looks like the records, etc. were not effected by the 1906 SF earthquake:

Frank Aleamon Leach (August 19, 1846 – June 19, 1929) was a United States newspaperman who was Director of the United States Mint from 1906 to 1909. In the aftermath of the 1906 San Francisco Earthquake, the heroic efforts by Frank A. Leach, and his men preserved the old San Francisco Mintbuilding and the bullion that then backed the nation's currency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_A._Leach

Leach retired from journalism in 1897 to become Superintendent of the San Francisco Mint.[1]

His account of the Dimmick robbery is here; http://books.google.com/books?id=890vAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA8-PA10&lpg=RA8-PA10&dq=Chief Clerk Walter Dimmick&source=bl&ots=h-PFYU8V9P&sig=btHE3_tU4BI5NvgwXZLPjBCwbUg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xxgOU7-_C8WJogSJ4IDIDw&ved=0CFwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Chief Clerk Walter Dimmick&f=false

 

Freedom used to be free, what our country was founded upon is just a facade now.

Freedom costs you money, so you can line the pockets of 85 men who own the same amount of money as 3.5 BILLION PEOPLE.

Income tax and sales tax did not exist in majority until the civil war era. That's why they love capitalism. All for one, nothing for all.

Moving on..

The gold that Dimmick stole was never found leaving some to wonder if the Saddle Ridge Hoard is the very same set of lost coins. After all, a publicly reported (and possibly estimated) 1,500 coins were stolen by Dimmick in 1901 which is only 73 coins less than the 1,427 discovered at Saddle Ridge. The dates on the coins fit the time frame and the type and denomination of the coins match too. Coincidence?

 

They would need something a little more concrete than circumstantial evidence to take possession of the coins. That said, I'm sure the government is going to be more than happy getting the taxes alone. That's probably in the $4 million range. I doubt it would be worth the legal fees and time to try and get the rest...especially since it is unlikely to succeed.

Everybody can't get everything for nothing Tim. Some of us have to pay our way.

 

The coins date up to 1894. If these are the coins that were stolen by Dimmick in 1901, why would the highest date be 1894? It would be more plausible if the coins dated up to around 1900, don't you think?

 

Begun the flame wars have.

 

Does anybody know the composition of the hoard?
Which years of minting were found?
I am specially interested in Double Eagles of the hoard.

 

I think it was mainly $20 Gold pieces.

 

not all are in perfectshape

A total of 1,373 were $20 coins, 50 were $10 coins and four were $5 coins. They were dated from 1847 to 1894, and after sprucing up they shone like, well, gold - which fortunately never corrodes. About a third of the coins were in pristine condition, having never been circulated for spending. Most were minted in San Francisco.


they have been restored

The first thing the family did after finding all the cans was rebury them in a cooler under their woodpile," McCarthy said. "They were terrified and had to think about what to do."
'Mind-blowing' discovery
He said when he first sat with the couple to examine the find, "the family had cut little squares into some foam and put 18 of the coins in the squares in a cigar box. I pulled out the first coin, and it was from 1890. It had dirt on it, but when I looked close, it dawned on me just exactly what it was.

"I almost fell out of my chair. It was mind-blowing. I was literally sitting with the most amazing buried treasure I've ever heard of."

He spent the next several months restoring the coins - a job so consuming that "my fingers bled," McCarthy said. It then took until this month for them all to be appraised and readied for sale.

 

Deceto said

Blah, blah, Political statement/rant not allowed on forum. You know better!

 

looks to be like half of the new found cash will be handed over to the taxman =/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...old-coins-forced-half-new-fortune-taxman.html

 

I feel capatallism works just fine especially if everyone works it's when you get to socialism where some work and pay the way for dead weight is the problem if we get the lobbyists big businesses needless self serving laws for only those that wrote them and career politicians who think their above the law out of there and stripped big government down to the fundamentals of the constitution it was written on this country would be greatly improved and millions of government leeches would be looking for jobs that they actually had to work at

 

If I found this hoard I'd expect to have to pay taxes on it I've paid taxes nearly my whole life I just wish I could dictate where my tax dollars go I have no problem paying for roads schools police national defense etc but a big problem paying for red tape government waste being the worlds police and for people that don't work

 

I'm not sure why some are surprised that taxes have to be paid on this (not saying that you are Mainebill). This is income...simple as that. Income is taxed...and since this is potentially $10 million in income, they will be in a pretty high tax bracket. So, they will probably pay well over 40%.

 

If these people had acted evasively and been caught, that would have quickly been game over, tax avoidance may be perfectly legal, but it is a game the Feds. will beat you at every day of the week if you make missteps or if they feel a compelling reason to pursue.

I would keep in mind on how this plays out that there are generations of Californians who have seen buried treasures turn up from time to time and how they have been dealt with by local, state and federal authorities. They don't want to ruin the party especially with such a big piece of the action, but they have compelling interests. Stolen gold hoards from the SF mint is a larger compelling reason than the Langbord coins if they can connect the dots. Back then all money was backed by precious metals, people were fanatical about that, disrupting accountability by stealing from the SF mint, that was really serious and why Dimmick spent a dozen years at San Quentin for the theft! He died in 1930, why didn't he go back and unearth his hoard?? The detectives no doubt trailed him after he was let out of jail and were waiting for any indication he had come into money. There are many possibilities here. He was the only one with the keys and access apparently. His boss, Cole, died soon after the theft, there might be some connection there?

Discussion is active at the PCGS site: http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=911538&STARTPAGE=14