I hope they are only referring to illegal acts committed by the policy holder. If a burgler broke in and stole your collection I would hope you would be covered for that "illegal act".
I am looking at a policy through my homeowners insurance because I also need to insure some jewelry and firearms. When I called them about the coins they said that I need to submit a detailed listing of the coins over $100, but that appraisals are not necessary. They did state that without an appraisal I would need to list the "reference documentation". I assume this to be the price guide, but I was wondering if anyone else has been through this. Also if anyone knows if it would be better to use the Redbook or Greysheets. I only have receipts for about half of my collection, but my intention is to maintain my detailed listing plus I will be doing a detailed video of everything. I will likely just put the recorder on a tripod and pick up everything in sequence to bring it closer.
I used my Homeowners policy for exactly 6 month, and dropped the Inland Marine rider as fast as I could. I have a detailed inventory and ~60% with receipts. Nationwide was a nightmare when it comes to coins (but great as far as the rest of my policy is concerned). The emails and phone calls I had with them regarding coins still gives me heartburn. It was basically unworkable. Your carrier sounds more accommodating, but you may still want to compare to Hugh Wood Inc.
Been with HW now for over 6 years. Never have had any problems with them, nor have I had to use them. There is one feature that I like about their higher tier insurance plan and that is the ability for them to insure my items when I mail them to people who purchase them and/or TPGs as long as you follow there guidelines. By sending my coins via registered mail, this meets one of their insurable guidelines.
And of course by sending them Registered you are also paying for insurance from the post office as well. If you are buying insurance from the post office, why are you paying a higher rate to HW? Of course HW coverage would apply while they are traveling to the post office.
I hope they will be more accommodating, but I'm still in the beginning phase. I'll send them my list of items and receipts (maybe 75%) and see what they say. The rep said that after that they won't need anything else from me to file a claim so I should get real answers when I send it in. I'm just waiting on a few jewelry appraisals first. I may look at HW, but I need to cover the jewelry and guns too and would like to keep my number of policies low.
One of the issues with my policy at Nationwide is that they wanted a new inventory every time a coin was bought or sold. And then they took that inventory and sent it out to the underwriters, took a week, and then a new monthly premium was calculated, and then I got emails and mail stating such. Well, like alot of normal collectors, I am adding and subtracting coins on a weekly basis just about. You can imagine how unworkable this was for everyone involved. Basically, if anything had happened, and my inventory was not 100% up to date, then I would be on the hook for anything added to my collection. I dropped that rider right-quick.
You can elect to send packages via Registered Mail without additional insurance purchased through the USPS. My Hugh Wood, Inc. policy covers for loss if mailed uninsured by other methods, too, such as Express Mail or Certified Mail as well as FedEx or UPS shipments.
Only on packages that have no tangible value such as documents. Domestic Mail Manual Sec 503 Extra Services 1 Registered Mail 1.3 Fees and Liability 1.3.1 Full Value Regardless of any insurance that may cover the article, the mailer must always declare its full value to the USPS when presenting it for registration and mailing (see chart below). The mailer must tell the USPS clerk (or enter on the firm sheet if a firm mailer) the full value of mail matter presented for registration. Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value. The accepting USPS employee may ask the mailer to show that the full value of the matter presented is declared, and may refuse to accept the matter as Registered Mail if a satisfactory declaration of value is not provided. Only articles of no value may be mailed as Registered Mail without insurance. Items of no value are defined in the rate chart as Nonnegotiable Instrument [registered bonds, warehousereceipts, checks, drafts, deeds, wills, abstracts, and similar documents (certificates of stock considered nonnegotiable so far as declaration of value is concerned unless endorsed in blank)] or Nonvaluable (matter without intrinsic value such as letters, files, records)
Do you have one of their fancy tailor made "PLATINUM" policies? Sweet. I was reviewing the Gold policy and it stated 50K coverage when "mailing by registered or insured USP Services". Funny they don't just say USPS. Might need to get a quote on Gold policy if I am going to start submitting more to NGC and CAC. Paid $26 this morning for registered mail with $1000 declared value, which I thought was fair.
Yes, but as long as the USPS are not in the habit of rejecting Tom's packages at point of entry, any lost/stolen items will be covered by HWI. I don't think he's looking for double indemnity, so a claim may not have to involve the finer points of the USPS registered mail policy. Also, he may not even use USPS and instead opt for FedEx.
Again, if you don't write a value into the box and you aren't relying on USPS insurance then they are entirely out of the loop and there is no need to purchase the insurance or fill out the value. In a case such as I described in this post, my Hugh Wood, Inc. policy covers me completely and the USPS is only using Registered Mail for its more secure handling. Forget the regulations, if the package is lost you deal with Hugh Wood, Inc.
I have a dealer policy that covers these shipments. You may, I believe, obtain a collector policy to do the same thing.
Do you think that Hugh Wood might balk at paying of a high value claim on a package with a declared value of $0? And should we debate the ethics of deliberately violating PCGS regulations? Nah not right now.
Why would Hugh Wood have an expectation that you purchase insurance from another source when they have already sold you insurance? The declared value of the item is solely related to the insurance cost charged by the USPS. It is quite easy to prove the actual value of the coin in the marketplace. And while I agree that declaring no value on a coin violates the stated rules of the USPS regarding registered mail, that is between the customer and USPS, it has nothing to do with Hugh Wood. Furthermore, I have sent many coins via USPS registered mail, and I have never had a clerk challenge me regarding the stated value of the coin. That said, I have never written $0 in the box. But it sounds like Tom has many times, and it doesn't sound like the USPS clerks enforce that portion of the regulations. What PCGS regulations are being violated?
The one I quoted earlier. My point is if you make a claim to HW that you lost say a $5,000 coin shipped by Registered mail, I would expect them to want to see the receipt for proof that it was mailed, and that they might question whether or not you actually lost it because the declared value of the package was $0. After all you are asking for a $5,000 settlement on a package that YOU declared had no value. I wouldn't expect the postal clerk to challenge your valuation at the time of mailing. If you undervalue it it just means you wouldn't get the full value if it is lost. They might try to question the valuation if you make a claim, trying to prove that you overvalued it. But since Registered mail almost never goes missing that isn't much of a problem.
My Hugh Wood policy states that I should not declare a value on packages that are shipped through the USPS, FedEx or UPS. Therefore, I stay within the parameters of my policy and do not claim a value.
To my knowledge, you did not quote a PCGS regulation. I am going to assume that you wrote PCGS when you meant USPS. I get your point, I just don't think it would be a problem. The reason for declaring $0 value is to avoid paying double insurance costs and would be obvious to anyone involved. All you would need it proof from the USPS that they did in fact lose the registered mail package, which happens so infrequently that you are right, it isn't much of a problem.
OK, if that is what they instruct you to do I guess you should continue. I just hope it never comes back to bite either you or them. You're right, my typo. I did mean USPS.
Some new info: I formerly had the HWI "bronze" policy, which was a nice low premium. I am shipping more items back and forth between NGC and myself and CAC and myself, so I inquired about the "gold" policy. For my covered amounts, the gold policy is only about 70% more expensive. Well, percentage wise that might sound scary, but let's say your premium is $50 a year, your new premium is only $85 per year! Did I mention this was a no-brainer for collectors? This is what the gold policy gets you: Covers your collection against ‘all risk’. This includes fire, theft, natural catastrophes, water damage and accidental damage. (see previously listed MAJOR EXCLUSIONS) Only requires you to schedule single items that are worth in excess of $10,000 each. Provides for up to $ 50,000 (or your limit of insurance, if less) for personal transits or mailing by registered or insured USP Services within USA/Canada. I was told in writing that only USPS registered mail qualifies, even though I specifically asked what "or insured USP Services" means. I was specifically told USPS Priority mail does not qualify. Obviously, there must be differences between the dealer policies and the collector policies. Now, I was also told something in writing which at first surprised me, but now totally makes sense. HWI does NOT cover you if you are selling on eBay. Reason being, if you have sold the coins, you no longer own them, they are no longer your property, and why would HWI being covering them? It all makes sense now. I was told that if I BUY something on eBay, and have paid for it, and can demonstrate that I've paid for it, then it automatically if part of my collection and therefore covered while it is in transit to me BUT ONLY if it was shipped to me Registered mail, and I don't think I've ever seen this done by a run-of-the-mill seller on eBay. Something to think about for those of you buying $10,000 coins online. Registered mail Shipments to NGC/PCGS and CAC would be covered while in transit but not while in their possession. Again, makes sense. All around, great customer service, and I know alot more than I did last week. For not alot more money, I can save a whole lot of cash while shipping coins to CAC, still paying for registered mail, but possible 1/2 as cheap now that I can forge paying thought the nose for USPS insurance.
