This is the first in a series of threads I hope to start asking the fine members of CoinTalk their opinions on a coin I have already sent to CAC for review. Please let me know what you think, such as: Will it fail to CAC, and why? Will it be a green or gold CAC sticker? What (negative) issues does the coin have? What positive attributes does the coin have? Is the strike good or bad? Is the toning pretty or ugly? etc If you don't know what CAC is, and are curious, see here: http://www.caccoin.com/ If you don't like CAC, and you think it's ruining the hobby, please still tell me what you think about my coin, but I'd like this not to devolve into an anti-CAC vs. pro-CAC brawl. CAC puts stickers on the A and B coins. Up for consideration if a 1954 S Franklin Half NGC MS65 in NGC5 "No Line Fattie" holder.
I love the light toning and darn I think NGC did real good on the grade. It's a gem all the way and CAC is blind in one eye and doesn't see too good out of the other eye if it can't see that.
Great looking coin but will the added value of a CAC sticker be greater than the cost of getting that sticker?
It think it's high end for the grade but not under graded, so I will say it green beaned. It's definitely not my series, but I'll give my opinion on the attributes you asked for. From the picture, it looks to me to have a weak strike with neutral toning and above average luster and skin, with only relatively few marks.
Interesting question, and I don't have an answer for you yet. I am mostly only buying cheap coins, and the cost for CAC is around $15 per coin with shipping and insurance both ways, assuming you send 20 coins at once. (My exact cost was $300 for 20 coins). On the particular coin, I paid $35 shipped + $15 CAC is $50, with fees from eBay and Paypal and shipping, my breakeven is around $58. Full retail with coin is $60, but obviously they can be had cheaper. I think that with the NGC Fatty and a CAC, I can sell for a $10 premium for a nice coin with attractive toning, or $70. Now, perhaps this coin has to sit in my store a few month, or perhaps not. I will certainly keep everyone here posted on my "little adventure". The few reason I am trying this at all are: (1) I collect CAC Type coins, and its getting harder for me to find the coins I want without an insane premium. (2) There are a ton of expensive coins with CAC stickers, but not so many under $100, which is where I buy a lot of material. I figure I can try and fill this gap. (3) I am starting with nice cheap coins, since this is just testing the waters. I can find lots of nice cheap coins that most likely have never been sent to CAC (probably becuase no one else is dumb enough) (4) If I fail, I will unload the coins at ~breakeven, even if it takes me months. I figure I may only lose a little money and a lot of time. I am looking at coins all day long already anyway.
Matt, thank you for the explanation as to your motive. It does make sense that in assembling a CAC type set that the more common modern types should have the sticker for the uniformity of the set. I really like the earthiness of the toning of this half dollar just enough to enhance an otherwise bland obverse design. If I were a Franklin half collector and I saw this one for sale I would buy it but, my collecting interests at the moment are the Liberty Seated coinage.
When reading my reply please take into account I'm viewing this on my phone. I think this one got the green sticker. 54 is one of the dates in the series that tend to have nicer luster and this coin sure does have nice luster, I would say better than average for the date. The surfaces look nice, high end 65 I believe. And as far as strike I think it looks about average for an S mint, it's not particularly weak but I wouldn't say it was sharp either. The toning looks pretty good as well. I would definitely like to have that one in my collection.
Quite frankly, after a few CAC threads recently, I'm not sure what to think of CAC anymore. Despite what their website says, more than one savvy collector and big name dealer has said that the sticker means nothing more than that John Albanese is willing to make a market in the coin. The "A" and "B" versus "C" stuff seems to be something they can use to describe their business model to the submitting dealers and collectors -- but I don't honestly think that they can consistently tell the difference between a coin that's A, B, or C. So, to answer your question, I have no idea if it CACed or not. The main reason why is because I am not John Albanese, so I can't know what he is thinking. I have seen far too many coins that I find to be highly attractive, original, and high end for the grade that have failed at CAC. And, I have seen others that passed CAC that are real dogs and I wouldn't touch if they were graded 2 grades lower than their assigned grade. In the end, collect what you like -- if you like what JA likes, then I guess collect CACed coins.
Hey, thanks for the post. I know you are not a big fan of CAC, as I recently read through your post on NGC forums. I think "more data, more info, is always better", and scientific based approach to judging CAC's claims, while probably impractical, are certainly worthwhile, was the main point of that thread. I agree with you 100% on those points. I remain a CAC-fanboy, as you can see, but I certainly appreciate hearing what the other side has to say, and I told the "secret" CAC forums guys the same thing. I have also seen some real dogs with CAC holders, but not many. I think all the CAC coins I own are great, except for a single coin I returned. I did send a few dogs into be graded, and I am fairly confident they will NOT sticker. These are coins that I had as a child, so I said, "lets just see". At this point, I am new enough, that I still highly value other people's opinions about my coins, namely John Albanese as you rightly point out. But yours too, and plenty of others here. -Matt
I don't fully agree with you about CAC coins not being good deals. I have quite a few that I thought were "good" deals, but maybe not "great" deals. In fact, I purchased some from members here on CT for much less than they go on eBay, CAC or otherwise, including this one: very Common data & mm, but I think it looks great and makes a great "Type" coin.
Thanks Matt. The take away message for me has been that, 1) Many coins that have the CAC sticker I find very attractive, and high-end -- but not all. 2) Many coins that do not have the CAC sticker I find very attractive, and high-end -- so the absence of a magic bean doesn't mean the coin isn't worthy of the label high-end. Some other food for thought: It is to CAC's advantage to limit the number of beans they apply. Keeping the supply of CAC coins low ensures the current high demand (and premiums) will sustain themselves. One of my (many) concerns with CAC is their possible lack of consistency over time. A coin stickered early on in their business (e.g., 2008) was advantageous to build their image and get enough coins on the market with the green bean that it would be noticed. That same coin submitted today may be held to a different standard, and may not sticker. I think this is part of the reason that some people are confused when they submit their coins to CAC. They have seen probably a dozen similar coins with stickers -- they submit theirs, and it doesn't sticker. Why? In my opinion, part of the "why" is probably because the standard has changed.
I'm saying cac is a selling tactic, not a buying one. Learn to grade and train ur eye and you don't need no stinkin' cac. They were designed for lazy/busy investors.
This is my question too you is it really worth all of that effort to make 12 dollars i see more of a profit in buying 10 dollar unslabbed coins like franklins, buffalos and indian head and selling them for 15 to 20. Thats a lot less work and the profit will be more for 70 dollars worth of coins you will make 20-40 dollars that a lot more then your 12 and if you figure in all the time it took you to work all this out imo you made not a dime !!
True, but I need to start somewhere and find my niche. Already learned a ton this week, and between talking with Hugh Wood, USPS, people here, and over on the CAC forums. An expensive education maybe?
I understand where you are coming from completely this is how a look at it, when one is trying to make a profit slabbing coins and get the CAC sticker on coins is not the best idea unless the coin is of high value !! More money is to be had in selling to people who will buy raw and have the coin slabbed for their collection also a good profit can be made from buying already slabbed coins for as cheap as possible put in the hard work finding the good prices on ebay or at your LCS or at a flea market, make friends and people will help you along the way. I just think the way you are doing it you will be disappointed even with getting the green bean on this coin i think the max you will get from it is 50-55 basically you will break even and all the time you spent will actually cause you to lose money !!