Techniques for artificially toning a coin

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Tinpot, Feb 16, 2014.

  1. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    OK, that is another type of question. Done perfectly ,No One can tell the difference between an 'artificial tone' and a natural tone, unless they watched it done. Toning is a natural chemical/physical action. One can't tell the difference between copper sulfide film made in a lab or on a coin, it is chemistry. Nor if it toned in a paper envelope over 30 years or, was chemically induced over 30 minutes.

    Now if it done by a witchdoctor ( catsup, Napkins, cigar smoke, etc, ) yes,it can be detected as bogus. The days of using liquids has long gone, Chemistry is Chemistry IMO.
     
    BadThad likes this.
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  3. NorthKorea

    NorthKorea Dealer Member is a made up title...

    That really misses the point. Junk silver and bullion aren't coins where "toning" would be used to verify original surfaces.
     
  4. Tinpot

    Tinpot Well-Known Member

    What did I say that was incorrect? I was pointing out that some people enjoy artificially toned coins.
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Colors do follow the order of the spectrum Amanda, problem is some of the colors are not always visible to the naked eye because their band is too narrow. But that doesn't mean they aren't there, it just means you can't see them. And colors do repeat. In other words a coin can begin toning, run through the spectrum, and then at a later time start all over again. Because of this you can sometimes see colors on a coin where the order of the colors seems to be out of the correct sequence, but it isn't. It is possible to see colors that are normally found at opposite ends of the spectrum right next to each other.

    And regardless of what anybody tells you, if artificial toning is done correctly, absolutely nobody can tell that it is AT or NT. And there is no machine or technology that can tell you either.
     
    Evom777 likes this.
  6. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

  7. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    I think this is the key. If the coin doctor does a really good job...it's going to pass as NT. It's sad, but it's true.
     
  8. treylxapi47

    treylxapi47 Well-Known Member Dealer

    Look at some of the ones he actually sold too. Theres some cool patterns he was able to make. Not that it makes me want one or anything, but if I had to choose between a colorized Eagle or one of that ebay seller's, I would definitely be buying one from the ebay person.
     
    Evom777 likes this.
  9. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    The Sunnywood posts quoted by Jim should answer just about any question anyone can have about toning progressions. The standard rule of thumb is to look for repeating patterns of yellow-magenta-cyan where those are the categories of colors. Magenta would encompass all oranges, reds, pinks and cyan would include all of the greens & blues.

    That said, proper color progressions are not a foolproof method for determining the difference between AT & NT. And as Doug et al have pointed out, there is no way to definitely determine the originality of toning on many many coins. Some AT coins are so poorly made that they are easily identifiable but a good AT coin done by a skilled coin doctor will often pass muster at the TPG's and will certainly fool the average collector.

    The best way to approach the subject of rainbow toning is to understand how the TPGs approach it. They don't use the terms artificial or natural. Instead they use the term questionable toning and market acceptable. The reason for this is simple: they really don't know with any certainty. All they know when they evaluate a toned is if the toning is considered market acceptable by the numismatic community. But as time goes by and new information and facts come to light, certain toning patterns & color schemes that were once deemed market acceptable can lose that status and become questionably toned. Examples of this would include Appalachian Jefferson Nickels, Peacock Ikes, & Blue IHC.

    The TPGs do their best to look for proper toning progressions & color schemes for each series, to look for evidence of air transfer toning as well as detect the use of liquids or powders, and evaluate things like the toning correspondence from obverse to reverse. But in the end, their determination of the toning is still their best guess. They don't know the storage method or owner's intent of any coin they grade and they must make their determination solely on the information provided by the coin itself. If think of the difference between AT & NT as a sliding scale with AT at the far left and NT at the far right, the difference between the QT (questionably toned) coins and MA (market acceptable) coins in the middle becomes very difficult.

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    Now the 1963 Jefferson Nickel that I have listed as borderline QT/MA resides in NGC plastic. What are the chances that it would grade again if I cracked it out and resubmitted it? I don't know, but I certainly am not willing to find out and lose the value that the plastic currently provides.
     
    definer likes this.
  10. LostDutchman

    LostDutchman Under Staffed & Overly Motivated Supporter

    Here is a piece that graded at PCGS today that shows a good part of the spectrum from white to "naturally toned". It shows that yellow-magenta-cyan progression well.
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1392771981.904117.jpg
     
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  11. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    Wayte Raymond album + time = Toning
    It make take your life time, and it may not be attractive toning when all is said and done.
     
  12. rysherms

    rysherms Alpha Member

    blasphemy. all of it.
     
    Vegas Vic likes this.
  13. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    What do you mean? The desire to tone a coin or the idea that the market wants toned coins?
     
  14. rysherms

    rysherms Alpha Member

    artificially. toning. coins. blasphemy.
     
  15. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    You can make some coins look better by artificially toning.
     
  16. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    Maybe they will look better...but they are less original. It's a shame when people do it.
     
  17. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    Im not talking crazy color toning, but leaving a cleaned coin on window sill for a few months to gather a little patina.
     
  18. rysherms

    rysherms Alpha Member

    THANK YOU.

    there are girls who want triple Q implants, doesn't mean it is right, that it looks good, or is a good idea. sure, its great to look at initially, but then she devlops scoleosis, suffers prolonged oxygen deprivation from the weight on her ribs....a bad idea.

    au naturel baby. my coins and my lady.
     
  19. CamaroDMD

    CamaroDMD [Insert Clever Title]

    LOL, interesting analogy...but I get your point. I have no problem with toned coins because coins naturally tone. I'm not a huge rainbow guy though. It's the AT coins I don't want...I do like blast white coins, but I know it isn't natural.

    It's just not my style...a problem coin is a problem coin. I think I'd rather have a cleaned coin verses a cleaned coin with AT. The more original the better IMHO.
     
  20. treylxapi47

    treylxapi47 Well-Known Member Dealer

    I think he's thinking along the lines of just those real ugly polished type cleaned circulated coins that just look downright too shiny for the wear and they would look a little better if that natural aging and toning process was induced a little speedier and with intent to enjoy the coin in a different way and possibly make it more attractive than how it previously was.

    No big deal if you're just trying to experiment and maybe make your collection more appealing if you happen to have some problem coins. My concern would be if trying to pass the fixed coin off as problem free or less severe at the time of sale. Full disclosure would be my advice from there.
     
  21. Vegas Vic

    Vegas Vic Undermedicated psychiatric patient

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