Techniques for artificially toning a coin

This is faulty logic. The toning premium (whether a fad or not) brought another element to the hobby. As far as AT/NT doctors being a negative on the hobby, they hurt those who collect toned coins. If not for the individuals who like toned coins, the doctors would simply be finding other ways to clean coins and make them look blast white (silver) or orange (copper).

The coin doctors would continue to exist, they'd just have different objectives.

 

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Not necessarily. If we really care about originality of a coin...then toning is important. Toning is a natural process that ALWAYS occurs. In all honesty blast white coins from the 19th century are not original. Since toning is something that happens to unaltered coins and eye appeal is very important (and adds a premium)...coins with attractive natural toning would carry a premium. Since there is money to be made...then people will try to replicate the toning to make that money.

 

But.....If coin doctors are getting really good at replicating natural toning, then all toning will eventually be considered potentially artificial and no one will pay a premium for it. Isn't luster what it's really about? You can't fake that.

 

I think there will always be collectors who want coins with original surfaces...and that means toned surfaces. I'd like to believe as the doctors get better, so do the detectives. Sure, there will always be concern...but I don't think that will drive people from collecting.

 

I try my best to hunt for original toning, patina or imperfections. Otherwise, I feel like I'm either supporting artificial toning or NCS and its copycats.

 

What about a coin that has been dipped and has toned again? I think the term "original" is very difficult to authenticate. I would however agree on most of your points.

 

I agree...and I think it's up to the individual collector what type of coin they want. I just think that coin doctors are here to stay and the best thing we can do is try and learn how to identify and distinguish them. For me, if it is even questionable I stay away.

 

I don't think they are giving people what they want. They are creating fakes (sometimes very nice look fake) of what people want and trying to pass them off as the real thing. Unless people want to be deceived...they are not providing what they want.

 

This is one area I've never been tempted to mess with -- artificial toning.

And not to completely threadjack, but ...

But, I was just reminded of something else ... I attended the ANA's summer seminar last year, and I was told by one of the instructors there is an "absolutely fool proof 100% definitive" way to tell artificial toning from natural toning, that I hadn't heard of before.

He went on to say that the toning MUST follow the pattern of the mnemonic device of the rainbow "ROYGBIV" (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet). Not that toning must start at one end or the other, but whichever color it starts with it must continue to the right. So ...
Green--> blue --> indigo = genuine
green --> yellow --> orange= artificial, or if there are any jumps like yellow --> blue, it's artificial.

This stuck with me because I had never heard of a "100% foolproof" rule to distinguish artificial from genuine toning, and since then I have seen a host of coins that break his rule in slabs, and a ton of coins that follow his rules that are immediately declared to be fakes.

Has anyone else heard of this "rule"?

 

It's not foolproof. Some of the coin doctors out there can do an amazing job with their toning. It's just like steroids in baseball...often the bad guys are one step ahead of the goof guys.

For many cases, what you have said is true. But, it's not 100% fool proof.

 

I had asked a number of dealers at a show I was at right after I had learned of this if they had ever heard of it, and not only had no one heard about it they all looked at me like I was absolutely crazy!

Would your "for many cases" translate to something like "most of the time", in your experience? That is, is it a decent rule of thumb?

 

I know that with silver coins...the pattern of color goes like this as the toning builds up. But, I also know that different variables can change things too. I would ask a member here named LeHigh. He's kind of the expert when it comes to toning. I remember a while back him and I discussed the nature progression of colors.

 

I think Lehigh should chime in on this but somewhere in the back of my mind I remember hearing about something along the lines that Amanda mentioned. It could have been one of Lehighs' threads.

 

He did...it was a great thread. My only point is coin doctors get better all the time...some do an excellent job of replicating the natural color palate of a toned coin. As a result...the fact that toning follows this pattern isn't inherently proof of NT.

I wish LeHigh would chime in...he's really knowledgeable with this stuff.

 

There are several "tales" of proper sequences, but from the scientific level the one in the chart below url appears to be the best discussion on it. It depends on the thickness of layers of toning material to produce the colors by thin film interference ( like oil skim on the surface of water). Also you might follow the various other threads at the beginning of this one. The colors were determined by the mathematical angles for differing # of layers. This recognizes that the colors are interference and not spectral such as the colors your fellows mentioned which are the order of colors in the rainbow, or transmitted.

Jim

http://forums.collectors.com/messag...highlight_key=y&keyword1=color&keyword2=chart

 

As Camaro said, it's not foolproof, but the logic behind it is the colors generated from a prismatic spectrum: Cyan-Canary-Magenta. The problem is that it technically can also go in reverse, since you might just be holding the coin upside-down. I think that chart Jim showed is probably the best, but it's confusing if you don't know *why* you're looking for the sequence.

Anyway, back to the question... the sequence is the same as a star's aging temperature color (if you remember to elementary school astronomy lessons):

Blue-Green-Yellow-Orange-Red.

 

The theory is in this thread

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=708296

 

I think this method can prevent someone from being fooled by those "eBay Monster Toners" but the coins that are really well done AT...it might not be enough.

 

Here's an example of a seller selling artificially toned silver eagles and not hiding it. So apparently some people do want them:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/bphis/m.htm...h=item19e8e5ccb1&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562