Rainbow toned?

I see a lot of beautiful brightly colored Morgan Dollar toners but I have yet to see a Peace Dollar with rainbow effect not just Peace but Franklins too. There are some beautifully toned specimens but not the vibrant yellows blues greens purples like the Morgans. I was just curios as to why that is. I know Gbroke and some others should have an explanation I just thought putting in a post rather than PM might help others as curious as me.

 

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The reason for this has been widely debated on coin forums for many years. The two best explanations that I have heard are that the planchets had a different preparation process which somehow inhibited toning. The other reason is that the coins did not spend nearly as much time in sulfur laden canvas bags in bank vaults devoid of climate control as did their Morgan counterparts. FWIW, I believe that the second reason is more plausible than the first. That said, I have seen some very nicely toned Peace Dollars over the years.

 

Luster is the effect of light caused by the surface of the metal. While I believe that surface variations can have some effect on the growth of a silver sulfide layer on the coins, the major difference between the two series is the storage method. And most of the vibrantly rainbow toned Morgan Dollars that I have seen are the result of bag toning, not album or envelope toning.

The Peace Dollar that I posted was almost certainly an album toned coin. But the colors are still nowhere near as vibrant as a bag toned Morgan.









If you would like to post some examples of some album or envelope toned Morgan Dollars that compete with the bag toners, I would love to see them. Most that I have encountered have been less dramatic and less impressive, just like the toned Peace Dollars.

 

Toned Franklins are definitely out there. Some of the brightest rainbows on Franklins come from the mint sets issued 1956 through 1958.

 

Those are beauties I don't have a anything toned like those and have not purchased aany because I don't know enough to tell the difference between AT and NT coins. I can guess that if a piece it graded it probably is NT but I wouldn't bid on one without first asking for advice from someone more knowledgeable than myself. Thanks again for showing off these beauties. I love the Morgans and the Franklins are the nicest I've seen.

 

That does not explain why almost all of the most vividly toned Morgan Dollars are bag toned as opposed to album toners. Furthermore, there are plenty of Peace Dollars with vivid toning. So while the general luster profile for Morgan Dollars is frosty to PL and Peace Dollars have mostly satin luster, that does not solve the whole debate.



I know you want to simplify this to say that satin luster Peace Dollars have less vibrant toning than frosty luster Morgan Dollars, but it just isn't that easy. It is a complicated topic with a multitude of variables that deserve attention. What you are saying is certainly a factor, but it does not end the conversation and is not THE ENTIRE POINT.

 

To the OP, there are plenty of rainbow toned Franklin Half Dollars. Some are from albums, but the majority of the monster toned examples come from mint sets, eg.

 

How did you do that?

 

That's crazy color on that Peace.

 

Now, my understanding was the texture of the surface of a Morgan Dollar is different than that of a Peace Dollar. As the oxide layer builds up on the surface of the coin, we see color from light reflecting off the surface of the coin through the oxide layer. I read somewhere that the different surface textures of two types of coins result in a very different appearance of the colors. Supposedly, this is why Morgan's get the rainbow affect but normally Peace Dollars get more subtle yellows and browns.

 

It is not my coin, I saved the photo from about 5 years ago on the TCCS forum. The debate over the originality of the toning on this coin raged for many pages IIRC.

 

That is basically the same as what Doug is saying. The surface texture is responsible for the type of luster seen on a coin. But surface texture does not explain why a thin film interface forms in a more gradual nature on a Morgan Dollar as opposed to a Peace Dollar. The rainbow coloration seen in toning is the result of the changing thickness of the thin film interface.

 

I thought the rainbow colors was due to the light reflecting off the surface of the coin and then through the oxide layer. If the surface beneath the oxide layer is different then the light coming though would be reflected at different angles and thus have a different visual appearance. Is that not how it would work?

 

Interesting point, Doug. Know what I think part of it was? When Morgans were stored in mint bags, they often resided in damp climates (especially New Orleans). During the Winter, many of these older facilities did not have central heat, and certainly no central air conditioning in those days--fireplaces, and wood or coal furnaces served to heat buildings, not oil, gas or electric fueled central devices. In addition, those old buildings had many fireplaces.

Now, air conditioning didn't make its entry into the equation, but in the 1920s, many more buildings did have central heat than in the 1880s-1890s, and that may have lessened humidity during colder parts of the year. Also, one wonders if the burning of coal or wood had some environmental impact upon toning? Just a theory. I have often speculated why so many New Orleans Morgans have spectacular tone patterns--more per capita than other mints of Morgans--that might have to do with humidity.

 

Is it possible that "O" mint dies weren't polished as heavily as other mints, thereby having more striations?

 

I think Doug and Lehigh both have good -- and equally valid -- points. The main example I'm thinking of is the 1921 Morgans -- a sort of "bridge" between the two series since the '21 Morgans were still Morgans but had a slightly altered design and (I think) a different wash when the blanks were produced which eventually transitioned into the Peace blanks as well. Unlike the Morgans of previous years, the 1921 Morgans are extremely difficult to find with any "solid" rainbow toning; that is, finding pieces with unbroken patches of color progression compared to the "cracked" and non-distinct colors almost always seen on the 1921 Morgans. So I think whatever the Mint changed during the 17 year gap between 1904 and 1921 caused the toning to decrease in average vibrancy.

BTW Lehigh, do you currently own that coin? I remember seeing it pop around a few sites for a bit, and then land in Kryptonite's ebay store for a bit. What a monster!!