Deals or No Deals? ~ Coin Shows

I just got done looking at a current calendar for upcoming coin shows in my region and got to thinking…should I attend, or not.

Years ago, this would have been a no-brainer. I’d attend any show within a two hour radius, often saving up for a month or two just for the event. However, over the past two years or so, I’ve noticed I’ve brought back less and less from shows and kept more money in my pocket. (Money I wanted to spend!) Indeed, over the past five coin shows I’ve attended, I haven’t bought anything. Now I’ll admit, I’ve narrowed my collection and focused on just a few series of coins. And prior to the show, I do my research and know what I can get my target coins for at online retailers. But when I attend a show, what has disheartened me are the prices I’m being quoted, specifically the lack of what l’d consider “good deals.” At times, these prices are the same, or higher, than they are selling for in the dealers shops. When I asked local dealer I know about it, he sort of shrugged and said, “I need to pay for the table somehow.”

Now I realize this could just be me, and my somewhat narrowly focused collection. Also, these are not huge coin shows, mostly between 50-100 dealers. So, I don’t want to come off as a complainer (well, not much anyway) because I know that these dealers need to make a profit and pay expenses. I also know that being able to meet other dealers and collectors is a wonderful experience and an opportunity to learn. But what I am wondering is if the experience of being able to hold a coin in hand is worth the distance travelled and potential admission fee into an event, especially if that coin is 5-10% more expensive than online. Also, do coin shows still hold the cache in your area, and do you find that the deals you’re getting are superior to what is being offer in shops and online.

 

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Depends. Does that online cost include the cost of shipping? And how often do you have to return an item and eat the shipping expense to return it so that you are out money with nothing to show for it?

Personally, I have bought almost nothing at a show for several years now (except the occasional slab variety). I still attend mostly to see the people I know.

 

Nothing like a coin show to learn.

Go for it.

And, yes, a coin is the hand is worth two in the bay. [eBay]

 

A 50-100 dealer show is not trivial; this should be a decent show. I have never known dealers who would raise prices for coins at shows and would advise any client of mine to specifically avoid dealers who engage in this behavior.

One of the great benefits of attending a show, though not the only benefit, is the chance to buy the right coin that would not make it to any dealer's inventory after the show.

 

Shows for me are good because:
-- I get to see the coins IN HAND
-- the available selection of better coins is large

 

Shows are good for cherrypickers.

Shows are especially good for us World Coin collector/cherrypickers here in North America.

I've come across AU to mint state world coins that should have gone for hundreds, but were only being sold for 20 bucks by somebody at the coin show because he was using a 1998-dated Krause SCWC, or because they have decades-old 2X2s with the price written on them.

And then there's the guys who just don't care about the world coins they sell: "What's this? Some Chinese crud? Oh, heck. I'll give them to you for 10 bucks, boy" sez the guy with THREE South Korean 1970 100 Won coins in around MS-65 (normally going for around $150 to $200 each). ..."uh, SURE!" sez me.

Try finding THAT kind of deal at the "bay"!

 

I thought it odd too, Tom. Specifically, I noticed it happen with "junk" silver. In the shop the day before silver was like 16x face (I don't remember exactly), but at the show they were at something like 18x. And no, silver didn't jump that much in a day. Funny thing was, nearly the entire show was about the same. For those of you that have read "The Pearl" by Steinbeck, it made me think of the original dealers Kino approaches (he was selling, but the point is the same). Although I wasn't looking for junk silver, it made me think.

I should say that I have a lot of respect for the dealers around here. Good people, and from my limited dealings, they have been honest. I just don't like the idea that I have to "pay up" + incur expense to get the coins I like.

I'm sort of with Condor now, where I feel like going to coin shows is an opportunity to meet people and see friends versus pulling out a bunch of money and buying coins. Maybe it's just my bad luck.

 

I normally prefer to buy from a select few dealers in my region who know me, what I'm generally looking for, and what price range will induce me to make the purchase. These dealers usually are vendors at the local shows, and don't markup their goods despite the sometimes high cost of taking a table.

But they don't always have what I want, so shows are a way for me to examine new material, and establish fresh seller-client relationships, which is in fact what has happened over time, so now there are also people I'm comfortable dealing with that I see only at the shows. And I do come across a few "deals". Yes, I've found that I buy progressively less at these events on account of my having fewer wants or needs, but it's not all about how much I bring home, as shows are just plain fun to go to. The experience counts as well, at least for me.

 

I go to shows to buy, but also go to look. The sheer number of coins of all kinds to be seen at a FUN winter show is staggering! Last month I made it a point to watch people entering the show for the first time. You could definitely spot the newbies. What fun!

 

It has been years since I have bought coins at a coin show. I usually lurk around eBay and flip coins to the dealers. Do I make lots of money? No. Is it fun? Yes. I usually only make 5-10% but I do enjoy the hobby this way. I do this mainly by buying bad photo good toning coin. A bad picture can cost a seller a lot of money. But if I want to actually buy it is either eBay or online.

My experience is that dealers mark up coins a huge amount at shows, especially toned ones. It had been years since I bought a coin at a show. The offers are usually in the insulting range.

The last time I spent money at a coin show was for my below arts and crafts project

 

It sounds like we are in the same boat, Vic. I also lurk on ebay and other auction sites to try and score a deal that somebody else might miss or not want to take a chance on. I also try to build relationships with other collectors who will clue me in on good deals they come across. Overall, and after the fees, I can break even when I sell on ebay, or occasionally wind up ahead. It's not going to make me wealthy, but it does provide me with a lot of hours of enjoyment and an escape from my daily routine.

Oh, and I really like your framed currency! It's a great way to show off some historical notes.

 

It's in my office next to my framed picture with me and flavor flav. Like I said Vegas rocks.

 

personally, im willing to pay 5% more in person than an online medium. i can see it in person. i can hold it in my hand. i am not depending on juiced pictures, or shady business practices i am unaware of from a person/company i will never meet. the internet affords people anonymity and unfortunately, people exploit that. but most online venues have all sorts of buyer protection - at worst, my credit card.

now, i also buy a significant portion of my collection online. south florida has one of the most abundant coin show "circuits" i know of, but, unfortunately, i collect very specific, unpopular coins. i see the same dealers at every show. each location has a few sprinkled in that others dont. i have probably approached 25-35 dealers in the last 6 months and gave them my business card with a short list of coins i am looking for. i have only gotten one phone call that manifested into a sale this way. and i had one dealer flat out turn me down saying "i don't do 'want' lists"...which shocked me. i have also made some pretty friendly acquaintances this way too and even partnered with a dealer on a few deals this way. the old fashioned way; with a handshake.

depending on what you collect will denote where you get your coins. be smart, be patient, and don't settle for a low grade just because it is on your screen or in front of you...thats the best advice i can give.

 

There's a decently-sized monthly show near me. I rarely buy anything. I agree, there are rarely any deals to be found. However, I still try to get there every month simply because it's fun to look. It's no different than wandering around a gun show checking out all the cool stuff even if you're not in the market for anything in particular.

 

Being primarily a bullion collecter/silver stacker I've come to the realization that "coin shows" aren't fit for me. I recently went to a larger show in the area and was honestly let down with how little personality the majority of the dealers had and honestly some of the folks were just downright rude. This most likely was probably just an isolated event but none the less...put a bad taste in my mouth being semi new to collecting/stacking. But I would agree it seemed as though some of the dealers bumped their prices. The local shop that sells coins/bullion sells their junk for around 16-17x face was at 19x face at the show. Are the dealer fees really that high? Apmex & the like will receive my business in the future...

 

It depends on the show. Personally I feel that the larger the show the more likely the dealers are to bump their prices. That is because their costs rise dramatically. there is more competition and so they feel they need more haggle room.

At a small local show the table fees are low, the dealers may not even have hotel expenses etc. The increased overhead is minor and there will be more potential customers so there is no reason to boost prices. But with a major show the fees can be high, the show hotel rates are high, food costs are high, often they will need to pay the expenses of assistants. For a major show a dealer can be looking at $7 - $10K in expenses before he sells his first coin. And if you have an average 15% markup that means having to sell over $47K dollars worth of coins at the show just to break even, no profit. but if you can boost your mark up some it you have to sell a smaller amount of coins to reach that break even point.

 

I went to three large shows last year and only bought five coins. There have never been any bargains on nice coins, but lately I've seen prices well above PCGS prices. I realize that dealers do many of the shows so that they can do dealer to dealer trading to satisfy client wish lists, but some prices were so high that I didn't want to insult them with an offer. Don't get me wrong, I am willing to pay up for a premium coin of a grade, but I am not willing to pay for the grade above just to fill a hole in my collection. What's worse is I hate eBay, and David Lawrence is no longer. Needless to say, by buying has slowed to a snails pace. A sad day indeed, I plan to speak to my shrink about it. Maybe there is a collecting withdrawal sedative.

 

I'm sure there are some dealers who bump their prices at shows, but at larger shows, larger companies will show up and they're more easily able to shrug off the cost of their table. I wouldn't get so disheartened that I abandoned all shows all together, if I were you ... you just have to find the right dealers, and that's ALWAYS true, coin show or not!


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Junior Numismatist, Alhambra Coin Center

www.lifeatthecoinshop.com
www.facebook.com/lifeatthecoinshop

 

Don't hate eBay. The best purchases I have ever made were on ebay. You can't just buy any coin and get an ok deal. Over 95% are way overpriced. But there are usually 120,000 pcgs and ngc lots at any one time. Statistically speaking there must exist good deals. You can adjust your eBay filter to manage the possibilities. I also set filters for toned coins. All together eBay can be a good place to lurk for deals. As for shows I love going to flip my latest round of purchases and will take the day off work. Ironically I would have made more money just going to work but I like to stop and smell the roses sometimes. And for the last few years I've had pretty good results. Not making bank but it really is fun. Just because dealers mark their coins up doesn't mean there is no fun to be had. Just be creative. How can you not have fun in a room filled with thousands of coins? I'll be at the palace station April 4th and have already arranged for someone to cover me for the day.