Fake coins... a legitimate place in our hobby?

Hello Everyone!

Time and time again, we see faked coins pop up both on this site, and other coin sites. Sometimes, the user knew it was a fake coin but purchased it anyhow (perhaps as a group of coins). Other times, sadly, the purchaser of the coin (and even the seller sometimes) was duped ... and spent money on a fake coin.

This is where I think I'll catch a lot of grief... but...

Though I hate the fact that coins are faked (makes it impossible for an untrained eye to purchase on e-bay), I began to wonder if they don't have a place in our hobby??

My thought is this....

As a Large Cent collector, I can easily purchase many of the Draped Bust series, as well as the very affordable middle and late date series. These are mostly all affordable coins in many different grades.

However.... when it comes to the Capped Bust series... or even the Flowing Hair series.... Good lord.... There is just no way I will ever be able to afford a 1793 Wreath..... It's just not in the future for me...

But.. for conversation sakes.... wouldn't it be neat to have one of those in my collection, knowing that it's fake!?

There is coin after coin that us "lower end" collectors just can't afford due to financial limitations. Is it THAT bad to have a copied coin in your collection to fill the gaps (so to say)?

There's nothing better than having a coin in your hand to examine.... it's a HECK of a lot better than looking at grainy pictures in a book...

What are your thoughts? Should every fake coin just be destroyed... or do you think these have a legitimate place in our hobby?

 

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Modern counterfeits that are not obviously and unalterably marked as "COPY" have no place in the hobby-industry.

 

I don't think that modern un-marked fakes have any positive value in this hobby. Now, since they do exist...having examples on hand as comparison pieces are valuable resources...but that is just to counter the problems they created.

Now, some older counterfeits do have value and are collected. One that comes to mind is the Henning Nickel.

 

I agree completely. One can do everything with a marked coin , such as learning characteristics, but not knowingly or unknowingly deceive others. One day your unmarked counterfeit might pass unknowingly through your heirs to others.

 

I would agree with Tom and Camaro. Aside from the obvious reasons that unmarked fakes are bad, I hate to think of how many potential collectors, new to the hobby, have simply given up out of frustration because they have been duped by a fake coin. Granted, you should do your homework, and there are many hobbies that have the same issue. However, I feel for the new collector or young kid that gets excited about a coin only to have a major letdown.
I know there are folks that collect them. I wish I could gather up every unmarked modern fake coin, drop them on their doorstep, and let them have their fun, cause I hate seeing them.

 

I think anyone who makes or (knowingly) sells counterfeit coins should be deported to the South Pole with just the clothes on his/her back and an ice ax.

Chris

 

Then fill the hole with a marked modern copy, or if you can, get a 19th century electrotype. They aren't real cheap, but they do have a legitimate numismatic legacy.

Contemporary counterfeits on the other hand I do think have a legitimate place in the hobby.

 

We collectors find ourselves in the situation where counterfeit coins exist so we should focus on what can be realistically be done about them. The Hobby Protection Act isn't being enforced, we all know that, so education is our best defense.

I have written a piece on counterfeit two cent pieces, and threads here at CT have addressed fake 1909 S VDB Lincoln's. There is a lot of good information available on how to detect fakes. For the OP I would suggest bookmarking the major auction sites archives where there are excellent hi-res pictures of every early copper variety for comparison. Such resources are available, you just have to search for them.

It all comes back to the maxim to 'Buy The Book' before the coin.

 

Contemporary counterfeits aside, fakes absolutely do not have a place in the hobby. As a relatively low-budget collector, part of the satisfaction and enjoyment of chasing down and acquiring a valuable coin comes from the scarcity and the difficulty of it. Having that 1793 wreath available to anyone for a cheap price diminishes the awesomeness of having one. Where's the conversation starter in "yeah, I picked that up for $10 off alibaba," when the guy you're talking to is $10 away from getting one himself?

 

I only collect fakes and have a great collection of bust and seated dollars. If I am ever low on funds I just sell one on ebay.

 

I can't remember the quote but it goes something like, "If I can create something so perfectly that so called experts can't tell it's fake, who is to say it isn't real?"

If it's real to you, then who cares if it's fake? I see people with fake Oakley's and Coach purses all the time.

 

Check practically every discussion here about so-called "Monster toned" coins, and you will read this same thing over & over. Most of those buying (and selling) these toners only care if the are accepted in the marketplace, not whether or not they are in fact AT (artificially toned).

 

I'm not even sure how to properly respond to this without violating 27 rules here. Its a very, very ignorant outlook on life, to say the least. Just because some people are either too dumb to tell the difference between cheap fakes and the real thing, or just dont have the basic will to care either way, doesn't make it right.

 

I know there will be many coins that I won't ever be able to afford or obtain but if I could I would always want the real deal versus a fake.

 

The actual quote came from master forger Mark Hofmann, and was in Charles Larson's book "Numismatic Forgery":

"If I can produce something so correctly, so perfect that the experts declare it to be genuine, then for all practical purposes it is genuine. There is no fraud involved when I sell it."

Larson implies that Hofmann created the infamous '59-D wheatback Lincoln cent, but that's merely conjecture on his part.

 

Thanks for the help! I couldn't find the source for the life of me.

 

How can you say without a shadow of a doubt that every coin in your collection is genuine? I know that you were not alive when your avatar was coined, so how do you know it is not an exact replica from 50 years later? If you have a fake coin that you think is real, does it make that coin not real? Ignorance would be to think real and fake are not a matter of perception.

 

Coleguy you are missing something. The quote does NOT relate to "cheap fakes", but to very high quality fakes that even the experts can't tell are fakes. I guess you can make the argument that the experts are too dumb to tell the difference, but of course then it would follow that EVERYONE is too dumb to tell the that the coin isn't genuine. And if no one can tell that the coin isn't genuine, then it follows that in everyone's opinion it must be genuine.