ICG v ANACS - Who's worse?

I don't think that a NGC-66 would sell for more than a PCGS-67 for the same coin. The only possibility would be a coin that sells for melt in all grades 67 and lower. Beyond that, I'm pretty sure that the individual buying the coin would take the 67, sell it for more than the 66, then buy the 66 later. Again, this is assuming they're the same price.

 

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Not only is the sentence in red true, I submit that both grades can be correct. That's right, the same TPG can give the same coin 2 different grades, and both grades can be correct.

I am ready for questions!

 

I think everybody is making lots of great points in this whole thread... I think we can all agree that eye appeal and your own ability to grade is number 1. I mean somebody can tell you a coin is beautiful if you don't think so. But there are many different arguments that can be made. Like if pcgs and icg was the same amount.of.money to slab...who would you send it to? Everybody wants their collection to be worth the most it can...who wouldn't? Ive seen quite a few Ms67 & 68 coins in both slabs...ngc & pcgs and liked them both. We might have to send the same coin into each tpg 10 times to get and everybody would see how consistant or not each one is...but i doubt it.would change anybodys mind. You just need to do your homework...some years/mints command more money in certain tpgs...and from my experience pcgs is usually that one. I mean...look at the price guides like their own.sites, cdn etc. look at prices realized. Like i mentioned before...i liked ngc better in the past but after all the mistakes ive seen...and had to deal with personally that changed. Ive never seen so many mistakes by any tpg...but thats me. Ngc Has a larger following...which helps them. But only personal experience will or wont change that and i think some are biased...more of a ngc or pcgs or nothing. Ill use em all...certain Ones for certain things although the chance of me submitting to ngc is low. Icg is really nonexistant. But imo...ANACS & NGC is right on top of eachother...ngc mainly.for its notoriety and anacs bec asuse of their solid work the last few. Lol This topic has the ability to never end...

 

I strongly agree...no way would an ngc 66 sell for for than a pcgs67...ill even go further...i dont feel an ngc 67 would sell for.more than a pcgs 67...i feel the pcgs would command higher prices...ive seen it time and time again. Ngc has been too nice with their grades...

 

I would second the notion, and say this is especially true for toned coins. TPGs can be rather variable in grading toned coins.

 

Doug, Thanks for your definitive reply. I thought the article was copied as I have done on numerous occasion, including my previous post. The software, doesn't allow me to copy addresses ("link") and paste in the Cointalk threads, as previously enabled. I may have erred in my statement, and the information was only "linked". Does Cointalk still have a record of that link address? It may have been stricken from the internet, as it appears all other complete records have, only allowing the newer "political", more favorable, seemingly biased report to be accessed.
I would appreciate receiving a copy of whatever you have relative to the Coin World report, however the Cointalk software will not allow me to "start a conversation", only receive same. I can post, respond to PM, but not initiate a message using the cascading menu. I receive a "install plug-ins" message, which I've tried unsuccessfully to install on numerous occasions. Please forward to me whatever you may have, or send a message where I can provide my e-mail address that has been previously deleted when trying to contact another on this site.

 

What you call an exception to the rule, I call the subjectivity inherent in grading. How many times have you seen a guess the grade on this forum and thought to yourself, that coin is a high end MS65 or low end MS66 without much conviction for either grade? Of course when you answer the guess the grade you can only make one guess. The same thing happens during the grading process. The graders may be torn between the two grades as well, but they can only assign one grade.

You state there are far more examples that exist where both grades could not be correct, but that is your opinion Doug. There is no way you have empirical evidence to support that claim. Likewise, I have no evidence proving that my reasoning is correct. I want to be clear on one point however. The statement I made has nothing to do with gradeflation or changing grading standards. I am talking about the present. You can send the same coin to a TPG twice right now, get two different grades, and have both grades be correct. I just don't want this conversation to degrade into one of our debates about TPG grading standards over time.

 

ICG
At least ANACS has relatively attractive slabs.


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what would be some key words, I could use to find that thread?

 

Maybe GD is better than I...but just because we are on staff here doesn't mean that we know any better than you. I would just do a couple searches and see what you find.

 

He remembers the original thread, I wasnt a member then. Just thought somebody who remembers the original thread could point me in the right direction.

 

I remember it too...but I couldn't give you a firm key word search. I would search "Coin World TPG" or "Coin World Study" or something like that. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

I vehemently disagree. What you call inconsistency, I call subjectivity. Some coins are rather easy to grade and others are not. And I am not referring to subtle aspects of grading. I am simply talking about where that coin falls on the incremental grading scale. For example, a Morgan Dollar that would grade MS65.5 would almost certainly get an MS65 grade from any professional grader. Let's assume that graders can consistently grade a coin within a half point. If the grade of the coin is MS65.5, the grading range of that coin would be MS65.25 to MS65.75. But if that coin in question was an MS65.9, the range changes to MS65.65 to MS66.15. That means that a significant number of graders would grade that coin MS66 while others would grade it MS65. So while in one submission, the graders would grade that coin MS65, it is easy to see how the coin could get an MS66 grade. So who is right and who is wrong? The answer is that they are both right. Grading is subjective. What one grader might view as a high end MS65, others might view as a low end MS66. For example, how would you grade both of these 1884-O Morgan Dollars?





You have always been a proponent that coins of a particular grade are not created equal and that there is no set price, rather, there exists a price range for that grade. This is in perfect alignment with the fact that there are low end, mid grade, and high end coins for the assigned grade that deserve to be traded at different values. It also explains why some low end for the grade coins trade for prices commensurate with a lower grade, and why some PQ coins trade for prices of a higher grade.

So while it may defy common sense that the same coin could grade differently and still be graded correctly, it brings into relief the subjectivity inherent in grading. There is no right and wrong, there is only opinion. And paramount in importance when buying a coin is that you agree with the opinion of the assigned grade. If you are buying coins without forming your own opinion on grade, and just taking the assigned grade as gospel, then you become a plastic collector and kool-aid drinker. Nothing really wrong with that, but it drastically increases the chances of a financial loss when it comes time to sell the coin.

Now I agree that there are times when the TPGs simply blow a grade and if you resubmitted the coin it would either come back graded higher or lower. There is some level of what you call inconsistency in grading. But subjectivity in grading has a much bigger impact on the apparent inconsistency in grading than does actual inconsistency.

 

Would this be helpful?
http://www.cointalk.com/threads/more-on-grading-grading-companies.1964/#post-13525

 

yeah, that look like it. thanks