ICG v ANACS - Who's worse?

Assuming the coins are completely identical...I think you would find that coin in an MS64 or higher ICG slab. But, I get your point. All things being exactly equal...the intelligent buyer would buy the PCGS coin.

 

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Assuming the person can grade coins themselves, if they agreed that both were MS63, then PCGS would be a no brainer. But the idea of price and eye appeal alone in making a decision is a novice mistake. The First thing in a buyers mind should be the condition/grade of the coin and not just price and eye appeal, but few trust their own ability to grade, or just buy for resell, so they feel secure to buy the slab.

 

I don't 100% agree with this. I think it depends what you are looking for...are you looking for absolute value or for an attractive coin in your collection. While I agree that no matter what the coin, it is critical to be able to accurately grade it...that's not the end all when it comes to purchasing the coin.

Lets say I want to add a 1901 Morgan Dollar to my collection. This particular coin is common in low grades and gets very expensive in high grades because MS coins are conditional rarities. Now, I find a dealer that has a PCGS AU-58 and a PCGS MS-61. I feel both are correctly graded. Technically, the MS-61 is a better piece and it is far more valuable and expensive. But, I'll bet the AU-58 looks much nicer. I'd rather buy the clean with a hint of wear AU-58 than buy the bag marked but no wear MS-61. In this case, I would rather have the better eye appeal coin...even if I could easily afford either one.

But, I would have evaluated both coins and determined them to be graded accurately myself. The most important factor in adding a coin into my collection is eye appeal...above technical grade.

 

pci is still in business???

 

Look here http://pcicoins.com/

 

All things equal the intelligent buyer would pay the lesser price for the equal coin in the lower-tier TPG and cross it over or better yet, disregard the holder entirely.

The important point is the coin. Let's not lose that perspective.

 

The person who posted this question clearly said the coins are same price and equal otherwise. The point he was making was that one TPG does add something to the coin while the other does not.

I think you are COMPLETELY wrong to disregard the holder entirely. Now, I do fully and 100% agree that a buyer must know how to properly grade and evaluate a coin they are going to purchase...slabbed or not. That said, certain TPGs (PCGS and NGC) are well known and accepted in this field to be experts. The opinion of these experts does add a certain insurance to a coin and that insurance (*gasp*) does have value. Is the COIN more valuable...no, but as a package the coin with that expert opinion is more value than the coin alone.

Because other TPGs don't have the same accepted level of expertise in this field...their opinions really don't have much value (often none at all). Thus, the package of a coin slabbed in a lower tier TPG slab is not worth more than the coin alone.

 

I thought that this hobby was called coin collecting, not coin investing, or slab collecting, or return on investment.

ALL things being equal, the coin is the important thing and if the slab adds value, then that's just icing on the cake.

just my 2¢

 

But I can get more "collecting" if I do not pay as much for each coin!

 

if they all became worthless overnight, you'd be happy??? You could get a lot more for your dollar then

 

Regarding which TPG, ICG or ANACS, is "worse", I have another specific question. Which of these two is more likely to put a problem coin in a problem free slab, particularly one that's abrasively cleaned? I can live with the overgrading if there isn't much of a price spread between grades. However, failing to note problems that aren't market acceptable concerns me a lot more.

 

I think you are correct. The coin is the key to it all...nothing else matters. But, I do believe that (some) slabs add value. I personally believe that the saying "buy the coin, not the slab" isn't 100% accurate. Most people who say that think a raw coin is worth the same after it is slabbed by PCGS...I think (and a lot of the market thinks) that PCGS's opinion has value to it.

 

Agreed, there is value in the slab, but only at resale time. The coin is only worth what it's worth and the slab adds perceived value in the current marketplace. Those things can and often do change, though and so it is IMHO better to value the coin as a coin and the slab as a +


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Thank you for being the voice of sensibility here. That tired old phrase "buy the coin and not the slab" is almost worthless. Only a cretin would buy a coin that he/she doesn't like--so, obviously, any collector with an ounce of brains will go and purchase the coin that appeals TO THEM. Also, it is obvious, given the market place, that slabs DO make a difference in how valuable a coin is. Do they make a coin look nicer??--of course not. However, do they make an attractive coin more desirable? Only a fool would say otherwise, as the coin has more resale value instantly.

 

Personally, no, because I buy to sell at a profit to supply my collection. But, yes, that is the idea.

 

I've tried to retrieve the Coin World year long comparative study of the TPG published in their May 26, 2003 edition which showed the blatant disparities between TPG, inconsistencies in resubmitting the same coins repeatedly, and the inaccuracy of the most prominent services. I have librarians searching for the document which was submitted to Cointalk archives in the past, and like the internet copy, can't seem to be located. I would appreciate the moderators locating an original copy, if possible. I have previously requested same, and again am asking for retrieval assistance. I will somehow locate a copy for future reference efforts.
The following is a partial overview of the original article:
In the May 26, 2003 edition of Coin World, the hobby newspaper had announced they had contracted investigators to conduct a year-long, comparative study of PCGS, ACCGS.org, and NGC, along with several other grading services, each known as a Third Party Grader or TPG. In their investigation, Coin World sent several of the same coins were sent to each grading service over the course of a year, each coin being graded by all Third Party Graders sent to. The findings were; "In no case did the grading services agree on the grade of any given coin, and in some cases the difference in grading was as much as seven points off". By way of example, a finding published by Coin World involved one case where ACCGS had graded a coin as "cleaned", which lowers the coin value, Additionally the coin had been graded several grades lower than PCGS while PCGS had not noted the same coin was "in fact, cleaned".

 

If ANACS is ACCGS, then I might be able to explain why they would grade a coin as cleaned that another TPG wouldn't. ANACS seems to grade any break in luster as evidence of cleaning. By contrast, it seems other TPGs look for hairlines or scratches to show evidence of cleaning.

 

yes, if you submit the same coin to multiple grading services, you'll likely get differing opinions. In fact, it is well known that you can submit the same coin to the SAME grading service and get different grades.

That said, if we take an example of a coin that NGC grades at MS-67 and PCGS grades at MS-66 (or vice versa for the sake of the example) it is entirely possible that the coin will sell for the same money in either slab.

And that would be ok with me, because IMHO the slab is just a slab.