Rare coin in a SEGs holder.....

Guess the grade mila:

 

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Hmm that obvious thumbprint doesn't help it one bit and makes it difficult to grade since everything else looks really nice. I'm willing to bet the thumbprint showed up later and is probably misgraded due to that circumstance. I'm going to use my imagination and say this got graded MS-66. What is the grade?

 

Obviously not a SEGS holder, but the point is that basement TPG's aren't market acceptable and usually over grade.

 

You need not prove anything to me about SGS. They basically have no understanding about grading coins. Probably the average 6 year old is more competent than they are. I would not waste my money on them and would not even trust them with encapsulating my own coins.

Really what interests me are solid grading services that are in the range of acceptable/respectable ones yet not top tier though (top tier meaning PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG), examples among them are: SEGS, NTC, GCS. Real graders that have some idea of what they're doing, not rank beginners.

 

SGS and SEGs are not the same company.

 

Which is basically what he said in post #84.

SEGS may not be top or second tier, but it's unfair to throw them in with some of the other dregs mentioned.

SGS grades are not the result of a lack of understanding or incompetence.

Seriously?

 

Really. Why are you selling so many SGS slabs on ebay right now?
You even agree with the grades and add hype to sell them.
If I'm wrong, please tell me.

 

Didn't see that.

 

Considering where this thread is going, it was worth saying again.

 

I clicked on your Ebay link and noticed that you have several SGS coins for sale. Are those overgraded?

 

Yes I do sell some SGS slabbed coins and guess what? If you read most of my ads over you will see that I state clearly I don't agree with most of the SGS grades assigned and state their grades (what I think they are) realistically. Since you're checking out my coins, if you wish to buy something or make an offer I would be quite appreciative and grateful. Just saying.

P.S. BUY MY SODA TAFFY!!

 

I think that I can safely say that SEGS coins value as if they were raw. Over the years, I have done exactly what Doug says all the time (and for the most part, I do agree with him)--I bought the coin and not the holder. SO, I have had a few (perhaps 15 or so) SEGS coins over the past 20 years and found that when I sold them, essentially, they were valued as raw coins that had been found to be genuine. However, not a single person with whom I dealt with (and these were reputable numismatists, not your corner coin/gold exchange) would treat the grade seriously. So, in terms of commercial value, a coin in a holder other than PCGS, NGC and sometimes ANACS does not command decent enough value to keep them in said holder. That is why I reslabbed any SEGS coin that I have kept.

 

I hear what you're saying but since SEGS has improved I think that circumstance will not the case in time to come. I think there's a decent chance I might be right on this one. Funny that you mention this but I've been getting some nice deals on ICG PR-70 Silver Statehood Quarters. I'm able to get them for between $15 to $17 a piece, I guess then ICG doesn't command money either. That's fine for me as I will take advantage of a deal then.

 

Just looked. It's an optical illusion. A raise on the holder plus some shadowing. But nice eye.

 

It is worth mentioning that Doug's advice applies to every TPG including PCGS & NGC. Doug grades every coin as if it were raw, and if he does not agree with the grade on the holder, he won't consider buying it at the price of the higher grade. It also explains why he doesn't collect coins anymore, because he so rarely agrees with a TPG grade, that it is almost impossible for him to purchase a coin. I actually think his methodology is sound advice for those with expert level grading skills, but I think those people are exceedingly rare, and I think Doug is by far the most conservative grader that I have ever encountered, EVER!

I am not trying to speak for him mind you, and I would expect that if I have missed the mark in any way, he will be by in the morning to clean up any mess that I have just made.

 

Noooo, Paul. You stated it perfectly. I agree with every word you said. For 20 years, I have been a staunch advocate for the two top TPGs for several reasons, and have stated them previously. First, I don't think they are wrong or inconsistent to the level that he does. Second, they make arms length transactions possible. Third, they protect genuineness--Right on this venue, I have seen some experienced collectors call coins genuine that were so obviously fake, it was almost mind blowing. Fourth, the financial value of coins is far more set with TPGs being the "market pacer" in the sense that the buyer and seller have some idea of value of a given coin. Before that, it was like haggling in a Middle Eastern Bazaar.

One still buys the coin and not the holder--if one doesn't like a coin, then don't buy it.

 

I knew that, Doug. He's a new guy, cut him some slack.