Rare coin in a SEGs holder.....

Is the dealer having a hard time selling it? There is your future answer.

 

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If he thinks it is an OK coin why doesn't he stick his neck out with the conservation companies and grading services?

 

$3250 seems reasonable would be good to see in hand if is genuine and problem free a good buy I'm assuming genuine regardless but hard to tell about surfaces from pics

 

The SEGS coin looks better! I don't trust the color on the PCGS one. This PCGS specimen looks like it was messed with in some capacity.

 

This to me is known as cheating. Cheaters never win.

 

You hit the nail on the head!

 

I had this same problem with Ebay and that's why I'm selling my SEGS 1893 Isabella Proof on Bonanza instead. People shouldn't have to stand for Ebay's crap, when they throw poo into our faces how we must respond everytime is to go somewhere else and stick it to them.

 

Tom, I almost always agree with you, but not this time. You are trying to wrap up the "package" as more than just a coin, but the product you sold and went out the door raw, was just the coin, not a coin plus grade. The "coin" comes back just as it left. You could even have it the customers responsibility to crack the coin out safely. The only thing that has chaged is your knowledge about the coin.

Now please understand, I am not saying that you should enter into such an agreement since a standard guarantee is all that is really expected, but I disagee strongly about the logic on the justification.

 

I like it. And the grade. And the price tag.

 

If I was selling you the coin, and you were willing to pay 6K, I would offer a full refund within 60-90 days in original slab. For $3,250.00, you are on your own.

 

We can agree to disagree if you like, but I was quite clear in my post and I believe you missed the point. The sale of a certified coin isn't just the sale of the coin; it is the sale of the coin and the assigned grade. If it were simply the coin, then there would be no need for grades on holders and the holder would simply be a determination of authenticity. However, that is not how the broader market views coins in holders and is not how the broader market values coins in holders.

The product sold is the coin and the assigned grade. If the coin goes out the door in a clean grade (problem-free) holder and then comes back in a details (problem) holder then the value and liquidity of the product has substantially changed in the eyes of many folks. The dealer is at risk if the coin comes back in a problem holder while the buyer benefits if the coin comes back in a problem-free holder. That is not an equation I would want to be standing in as a dealer and I avoid the situation by not handling coins that might put me in that spot.

If you still disagree that the product is the coin and the assigned grade and instead is the coin only; simply ask yourself to answer this question honestly-

If you had a coin in a holder and had the coin regraded (crossed over or straight regrade) whereupon it came back with a higher grade and was worth substantially more, would you sell the coin priced as the lower grade or would the price of the coin rise to reflect the new, higher assigned grade? I imagine the price would rise because you are selling the coin and the assigned grade. Please do not excuse yourself from answering the question by stating that you don't sell coins; that you are not a full-time dealer or that you would never have a coin regraded.

 

I have to relay a story. I recently examined a 1797 small eagle dollar in an SEGS AU53. The coin had to (to me) clearly been holed, plugged, and repaired. None of this was noted on the holder... BEWARE of rare coins in SEGS holders.

 

If the coin trends 6K in XF, 9K in AU and the dealer wants 3K for a coin in an AU holder, what does that tell you about the dealer's confidence in the assigned grade of the coin or the originality of the surfaces?

 

There is one sticky point of the argument here. I was working under the assumption the coin in SEGS holder is being treated as raw and the SEGS holder does not add to the original "package" I may have falsely assumed that was your belief. If in your estimation the SEGS holder does add to the "package" then it is a bit different. In that case I do agree, if the holder came back IN a genuine\details slab, you are not getting the same thing back. If that is the case, part of the deal would have to be the coin stays in the original holder. (But I am uncertain if the TPGs give you this option like a normal "failed" crossover attempt) If it came back still in the SEGS holder I still feel you would be made "whole again" As I said, you just have more knowledge now

Now in this response you just stated something different. "That is not an equation I would want to be standing in as a dealer and I avoid the situation by not handling coins that might put me in that spot." No, I don't want to be put in that situation either, but originally you statement centered around being made whole as you reasoning was the product "has materially changed" It is two very different things. The part I disagreed with was how or why the product changed.

As for you question, I have no issue answering it. I would certainly sell it at the higher price. When I get the package back in a better holder, I totally agree, the product did change, no argument, but when you get a RAW coin back RAW or a SEGS holdered coin back in the same holder, the product did not change, the only thing different is you have more knowledge.

 

Awesome coin!! Getting it PC or NGC graded would definitely boost the confidence of the buyer!(therefore probably selling for more)

 

Ahhh...I see where we were on different pages.

This might be counterintuitive, but I will attempt to explain. When a coin is in a SEGS (or take your pick of off-brand holders) then I view it as being raw, but it still has increased liquidity in the broader market because it is viewed as authentic to a higher degree than when raw. Therefore, while I would consider the coin as raw, or worse than raw, the broader market can reward the coin either with greater value or increased liquidity because there is a greater assurance of authenticity.

The value or liquidity can be further enhanced by what the label states and in this case the coin has a straight grade, which means that if it went into a problem holder from another company that certain portions of the market would react differently to the package.

This all makes sense in my head and I think we are in agreement on most every major point, but I may not have written it well enough to convey the ideas effectively.

 

Yes, we agree

 

Guys seriously, stop bashing SEGS as being inferior. This idea they can't be equal with PCGS or NGC really isn't logical when you think about it lucidly. This idea that SEGS is worse than PCGS or NGC is simply based on emotions. There's nothing scientific to prove PCGS or NGC is better than SEGS. I can show you piece of crap coins NGC put into a regular slab that they shouldn't. All this praise of PCGS and NGC is just hype, vanity and obsession with the idea of making an easy and fast profit. I believe in selling coins for what they are, not playing musical chairs trying to see if PCGS or NGC will accept certain coins. Screw that!! I have a brain in my head and don't follow the opinion of crowds and masses like mindless sheep.

 

I'm writing about market conditions and do not need to insult other members to do so.

 

They are inferior to PCGS and NGC in every aspect.