I'm bidding on some coins in a local auction. I notice a raw trade dollar and it looks off. Pulling up comparison photos you can see its a bad fake. now, I buy coins from this auction house all the time, and this is the first time I've noticed a fake. I like buying from these guys. I know it is illegal to sell a counterfeit as if it was real, and that is what is being done here. They know little about coins so I decided to save them possible legal issues and tell them about it since there is still a week left in the auction. It is already bid up to over $60 and I know that if I was told a coin was real by a business only to find out it is fake, I would expect said business to accept a return with full refund. Being illegal to sell a counterfeit as real, the auctioneer has no leg to stand on. though it may appear I want to help out the auction house, I contend that I only want to see that discouragement of selling coins is kept to a minimum so I can continue to buy coins from them. I called them up to let them know. Still a week left in the auction, they could pull that listing and retitle/describe the counterfeit properly. All they said was that I should contact the consignor and gave me his number. I don't really want to pursue it any farther.
It must really be local. I have never heard of an auction telling someone who the consignor was. Are they licensed? If someone has a trade dollar in the auction, there are probably more coins at his home
You have no business with the consignor, it's ridiculous that they suggested it. I'd send an email. You could also mail a letter. People tend to blow off what they hear. Once it's written in black and white they tend to get more motivated into action. Maybe you just spoke with a bad apple at the auction house. Hopefully the email will make it to someone with a better compass.
Are you sure enough the coin is fake, enough to put your reputation on it? All auction houses in my area, guarantee the authenticity of the item sold, if advertised that way. Is the description clear in stating it is a legitimate coin? Do they have a disclaimer in their auction guidelines that holds them harmless? If the latter, it's the buyer's responsibility to determine if it's an authentic coin and it's value. The seller may not know the difference either. That's what lot viewing is all about. However, you could still get favorable recourse through the courts if it turns out that way. In the case of currency, they (My local auction houses) never guarantee's the grade if the item is raw.
Since at first you only thought something looked off, can you explain what in the comparison photos allowed you to conclude it is a bad fake? I'll echo Sam's question about being so sure it's a fake that you would be willing to risk your reputation. I cannot say one way or the other, especially without knowing more about the example in question or what you used to come to your conclusion, but can suggest that you tread lightly. While your intentions are surely noble, it is still sometimes best to bite one's tongue. Since you've already made your opinion known, you may want to step back and allow the involved parties to do as they choose regardless of if they remove the listing in order to verify or discount what you've told them, or if they continue on with the sale. It is their business, so if it is fake and it comes back to bite them, they would only have themselves to blame. However, if there is even a minuscule chance that you're wrong, pressing the issue lead to future resentment on their part.
I used coin explorer at ngc.com for images of authentic example. The design itself of seated liberty is too small, as if the size for a half dollar coin was put on a dollar sized planchet. on the obverse: the stars are not uniform, the angle of the arm is shallow, the leaves of the olive branch end on the inside of the stars. reverse: eagle is cartoonish, banner too short on both sides the designs are too small and font of lettering is wrong and not uniform (the word STATES contains two very different S's and T's) I'd stake anything it is a fake. I only want to see that this place continues to list coins for auction. Frankly, someone is ready to waste over $60 on it and that means they have less money to raise my bids on other coins.
it is listed simply as a trade dollar. NOT as a counterfeit. they have just kind of gotten into selling coins recently, so I don't know what it says other than "all items sold as is"
I had a similar experience actually. Really local auction house, with no coin knowledge. I took the education route. I showed them pics in the book of real coins, and showed them how theirs was not the same. Didn't work on the clerk. Tried it on the auctioneer, he wasn't interested. Since I was POSITIVE it was fake, I then told the auctioneer I had no choice since I was a member of the ANA, (wink wink), but to go to the local police department and swear out a complaint of counterfeiting against the auction house and have the local police notify the Secret Service. This got them to pull the item, and I didn't see further fakes later. Would I have done it if they had called my bluff? IDK, but it worked. I would reiterate as others have said though. You need to be SURE its fake. They kind of looked at me sideways for a few months, but didn't stop me from bidding. After a while it was forgotten. Like you, I just wanted to be able to still participate, but also stop the spread of fakes. I actually had another instance of fake ancients in a local coin only auction. I told the owner they were fake, showed him why I knew they were, (really bad cast fakes), and he never pulled them or mentioned they were fakes. That was the last time I ever had dealings with that dealer. It wasn't easy either, since he became the state coin association president, and is to this day the largest coin dealer in a good sized city. Just proves size and success does not prove integrity.
Unverified details may be presented as the consignor's description (in quotes). I'm pretty sure the auction house takes no responsibility for the accuracy of these.
"Is the description clear in stating it is a legitimate coin?" Is that really necessary? Is it not assumed? Not sure I have ever seen that claim made specifically.
If this auctioneer is selling "as is" that will be sufficient to put the burden back on the two parties involved (Buyer and seller), and remove him from litigation. By description, I don't mean every single coin, but if his guarantee states they are all authentic and legitimate items selling in his auction, then all items are consider such unless otherwise noted. Legitimate also covers stolen or merchandise owned by someone else. Perhaps even collateral for a business loan. He is taking the responsibility to make things right if they are not so. But don't assume this if it is not on record somewhere.
No, THEY need to contact the consignor and see what he wants to do about it, or they should pull the lot. It might protect him from litigation, but the auction house would still have to refund the buyers money as they can't pass good title to the buyer. Then it would be up to the auction house to seek reimbursement from the consignor. Saying something is being sold "as is" does not allow you to sell items that can not be legally sold.
This was included in my comment about still getting favorable recourse through the courts. How many people are going to pursue this action on a common coin? Unless there was a large lot purchase of such coins by a dealer, this would only come into affect on rare pieces and not too many local auctions.
