Someone please explain Morgan dollar grade

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by MAKECENTS, Jan 13, 2014.

  1. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Your comments are among tens of thousands of others who have posted of similar experiences, and not just on this forum but on all of them. Many times it's because the coin owner can't see the problem because they lack the experience to even recognize that something is a problem. In other words they don't know what it is they are looking at. From 15 years of reading posts and comments like this I'd say that is the most common reason.

    But, there is sometimes another reason - the TPGs can and do make mistakes. In other words, if you were to crack that coin out and send it in again, it might very well come back in a regular graded slab. PCGS is well known for their inconsistency, much more so than NGC. Which is why many prefer NGC over PCGS. Of course you could send it in 3 times and it'll come back the same way all 3 times - that happens too.

    What you need to do is keep something in mind - 80% or more of all older raw coins are problem coins of one kind or another. Think about what that means. It means that if you send a raw coin in to be graded there is only a 20% chance, or less, that the coin will be graded. Those are tall odds to go up against. So if you are going to send in a raw coin, you better be pretty good about judging coins or you will likely be disappointed.
     
    Amanda Varner, imrich and JPeace$ like this.
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  3. Endeavor

    Endeavor Well-Known Member

    Hello Chris. I think you missed the point I am trying to make. I know I cannot do a better job than TPG graders. I only believe that coin collectors should not put so much faith into a grade. Grading a coin is an imperfect and inconsistent science. I believe one's money is better spent elsewhere. With the exception of verifying a coin as counterfeit or not - if you are unable to do so yourself.
     
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    No, I didn't miss your point! You made the comments above with no basis in fact. It is apparent to me that you know little, if anything, about how the top grading services operate.

    Chris
     
  5. MAKECENTS

    MAKECENTS Active Member

    No, no way its a jewelry piece PCBs cannot grade a jewelry piece as a details correct
     
  6. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    ?? What is a PCB, and is your sentence a statement or a question?
     
  7. MAKECENTS

    MAKECENTS Active Member

    edited i cracked it.. No way i am sending it in again but i needed to look close
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2014
  8. MAKECENTS

    MAKECENTS Active Member

    It is a statement. And pcbs is autocorrect for pcgs for apple comps. I am so sorrrrry. To clarify, i believe, and i could be wrong but i thought pCGS could not give a unc details grade for bezeled or jewelry coins
     
  9. MAKECENTS

    MAKECENTS Active Member

    PCB's are carcinogens found in old natural gas mains though
     
  10. MAKECENTS

    MAKECENTS Active Member

    , I just figured I would share a obviously frustrating occurrence and i thought it would be interesting to get some feedback because i do lack the ninja skills of the tpg graders and could be mistaken. Do you see a definite problem with the rim?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 15, 2014
  11. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I see what might, or might not, be one - can't tell for sure by looking at pictures.

    Let me add this. If a person is not 100% confident in their own abilities to identify problem coins, fakes, and accurately grade coins - in other words their own abilities to do what the TPGs do - then when they see a TPG result that they question, don't understand, or agree with, then they should be asking themselves - why did this happen ? Why did the TPG make this particular determination ?

    For the most part the TPGs are very good at identifying problem coins and fakes. And the vast majority of the time when they identify a coin as such they are correct. Do they make mistakes ? 'Course they do, as I mentioned above they have consistency problems. But PCGS has slabbed over 20 million coins, so even if they have made mistakes on hundreds of thousands of them, that is still only a tiny percentage that are mistakes. That means most of the time you should be accepting what they say as being accurate and be asking yourself - why didn't I see that ? What did I miss ?

    Make note, I am not talking about grading here. I am talking about them identifying problem coins and fakes - and only that.
     
  12. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    In my opinion, PCGS nails it when they call something damaged.
    They make very few mistakes in that area.
     
  13. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    Don't want to open a can of worms here, but if you cracked it out and are not sending it back in, how will you be selling it? You stated you used PCGS because it was more favorable to your buyers so I would assume you are selling it? If you think it is not a problem coin, do you sell it as a non problem coin?
     
  14. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    why wouldnt he? If he doesnt think there is a problem, he can sell it that way. Pcgs doesnt have final say on a coin. They make mistakes just like the rest of us.
     
    Endeavor likes this.
  15. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    SO.... you use their grades when it benefits you, or crack it out and sell it raw if it doesn't?
     
    micbraun likes this.
  16. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector

    If the OP honestly doesnt see any damage, and takes good pictures of the coin. I think that it is fair to list it as a UNC Morgan. Pcgs may have spent 10 seconds looking at it, they may have made a mistake.

    I think the TPG who charge 25-50 dollars coin, could give an explanation of the problem, for that kind of money. Such as, rim damage at 10 o'clock on obverse. They charge a lot of money to look at the coin for 10 seconds and just say its a problem coin.
     
    Kevinfred and Endeavor like this.
  17. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    If you can't or don't trust the judgement of the TPGs then why send coins in to them and pay them for their judgement in the first place ?
     
  18. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    I don't understand your argument. You guessed that they looked at this coin for ten seconds. Then went on to use that ten second time frame to further your argument that they charge too much for looking at it for that long. They could have looked at that coin for two hours and lost money grading that one. When he sent the coin to PCGS, he was paying them to be the final say on the coin.
    I'm not going to continue arguing this. All I will say is I feel it is unethical and I was hoping for the OP to answer. I would automatically put him on the "never buy from" list. Sorry to say, you made the list also.
     
  19. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    I shouldn't say also because I don't know what the OP's thoughts are yet.
     
  20. bkozak33

    bkozak33 Collector


    In ten years you have never bought from me before How would not buying from me now effect me? You should always find dealers you are comfortable with buying from. It will make collecting a more enjoyable hobby.
     
    Endeavor likes this.
  21. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Enough guys, let it end right here.

    As for the ethics issue, it is best not to judge the actions of others unless you are willing to accept the judgement and opinions of others about your own personal actions. And I guarantee you there is not 1 person on this planet who has not or could not have their actions judged as being unethical by somebody.

    Food for thought.
     
    Endeavor likes this.
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