A Roman Rampage

Lately, I have been buying Roman coins. For the time being, I am buying cheap ones. I plan on eventually buying higher-grade and even mint state Roman coins (if they exist), and then maybe some Greek coins. Then maybe in the future I'll pick up ancient Indian coins, who knows.

I picked up this "quinarius" for $21 on eBay, from approximately 88-87 BC. It was an impulsive buy. Does anyone know anything about this? I bought it because the seller has a good rep and it seemed dirt cheap. I'm game for ancient silver coins in the $20 area at this time.

This appears to be the coin:

http://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33083.html

The coin seems to be a bit smaller than the denarius. Anyone know something about this coin or of the quinarius in general?

Thanks.

 

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The quinarius was valued at half of a denarius and from the photos it looks OK and worth about what you paid.

 

Your coin is:

Cornelia 51, Sear5 #255,

Cn. Lentulus Clodianus. 88 BC. AR Quinarius (1.66 gm). Laureate head of Jupiter right / Victory crowning trophy. Crawford 345/2, Syd 703; Cornelia 51.

I think you did fine with the price, and, in fact, perhaps you got it under value. You can take a look at a similar coin at: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/sear5/s0255.html#cornelia51

 

neat coin, I wasn't familiar with the type.

 

I just find it really cool that you can buy ancient silver coins for about $20. Granted, the quality improves the greater you're willing to spend, but to me that's like 3 McDonald's meals. It reminds me of the time I walked into a coin show and bought an 1808 Capped Bust half dollar with visible date and details for $50. There's a lot of history out there for the taking!

 

With Ancient's, it's all about the history.

 

Sweet => that's a cool lil' pick-up, jolumoga ...

I'm pretty sure that I only have one quinarius in my collection, but it isn't nearly as old as your wonderful Roman Republic example, nor is it silver ...

Allectus. Romano-British Emperor, AE Quinarius
“C” mint
AD 293-296
Diameter: 19 mm
Weight: 2.72 grams
Obverse: Radiate and cuirassed bust right
Reverse: Galley left, with mast; waves below; QC
Reference: RIC V 124; Rogiet 1027; Burnett, Coinage 1027
Othere: 6h … black patina, minor deposits



=> I'm pretty sure that the "Q" is for Quinarius and that the "C" is the mint

 

I picked up a Commodus (177-192 AD) denarius from a trustworthy dealer up in Michigan for $33. Again, picking up these ancient pieces is quite addictive. I had no idea buying just one would soon get me to five in total.

 

oh dear......its started. Better prepare yourself, its a downward spiral from here........
better tell your family you may be gone for a while.....

 

I don't think you overpaid for this coin, but $33 is probably at the high end of the value. It sounds like you have the bug as most of us have experienced and many of us are still experiencing. I would suggest checking values of coins on line before buying or even checking here to get opinions prior to purchasing.

Welcome to the Dark Side!

 

Hoo-ya!

 

OK, I found 2 more Roman coins on eBay for $17-18 each. I know these are not of the best quality out there, but I just want to show others that you can pick up nice historical pieces for under $20.

I should mention my criteria so far:

1. I only buy coins that are or appear to approximate the correct weight. I therefore like my denarii to weigh about 3 grams and my early antoniniani to be at least 4 grams.

2. I also have a preference for dates with higher silver purity, even though most of the value of these coins is numismatic. Although the denarius was generally purer than the antoninianus, the heavier weight of the early antoniniani (4-5 grams vs. 3 grams) meant that some issues had more silver content than some of the later denarii.

Here is an informative website on the decline of the silver purity of the denarius and antoninianus:

http://www.tulane.edu/~august/handouts/601cprin.htm

As a silver bug, I might be one of the few here who really care about silver purity. At the least, this is an interesting economic indicator of ancient Rome. However, I wouldn't rule out buying bronze or copper coins in the future. They were obviously more commonly used by the commoners.

Here are the 2 coins I snapped up today. Like I said, this is addictive. The antoninianus is of Gordian III and the denarius is of Antoninus Pius. Both should have at least 1.5 grams of silver.

Yeah, I know, I love silver, that's why I am most often (or have been in the past) posting in the bullion forum. I am a convert to numismatics.

 

I like silver as well, but, I'm here to tell you, that many of the bronzes can demand much higher prices than the silver. I would refer you to some of the coins Ancient Joe has posted on this forum. Not only are they beautiful, but rare in the condition presented.

 

Here is a coin I got for $19.99 in total from a dealer at Vcoins.

This is a better Gordian III antoninianus than the one earlier. It weighs 4 grams. It would have been even cheaper had I bought another and combined shipping.

 

I know its exciting, being able to buy authentic ancient coins so cheap, but your best friend in collecting ancients is knowledge. Knowledge of our grading system, (in short no AU or MS coins, for almost all coins a gXF is the highest grade, and take a US grade and lower it by a full grade, so a US XF we call a VF), which coins come in high grade and which ones don't, etc. Weight is only one factor in determining a coin is good or not, the best method is to simply look at tens of thousands of authentic coins.

As an example, that Gordian III comes in high grades a lot. I have bought what US collectors call AU or MS examples for $20-25, (but I am a cheapo and have been doing this a long time). They simply hoarded a great deal of new coins of this emperor. You can read history to find out why. For numismatic purposes, suffice to say this was not a bad deal, but you could have gotten a much better grade coin for just a little more. For other coins that is not true at all, a coin this grade is the best you can hope for short of $300.

Also, I echo the copper comments. Especially for sestertii. A high grade sestertius is usually much more expensive than a similar grade denarius, and sometimes as pricey as gold. Since almost all ancients are worth above melt, the value of the metal does not factor into value, its only collectible value.

Btw, if you really like pm, probably the best best in ancients would be byzantine or some kushan gold coins. They would be the closest to pm value. The purity and weight of silver coins are of interest to us from a numismatic perspective. We are keenly aware of debasement and how it played out over time, its just most of us do not judge collecting decisions on how much pm is in the coin, that's all.

 

I agree with med-man. This is an alright coin and the cost is not too far off; however, you could do much better for Gordian III for around the same cost or slightly higher. Just as an example, here is a Gordian III I picked up a little better than a year ago for just $17.50 shipped:

GORDIAN III AR Antoninianus
OBVERSE: IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG, radiate, draped & cuirassed bust right
REVERSE: LIBERALITAS AVG III, Liberalitas standing left with abacus & cornucopia
Struck at Rome, 240AD
4.6g, 21mm
RIC 67

 

Mint state ancient denarii are very, very rare. This coin is about as close as I've come to a mint state denarii:

CASSIUS
AR Denarius (3.85 gm.) Tyrannicide, d. 42 B.C. Smyrna (?) early 42 B.C.
Tripod / Jug & Lituus. Moneyer P. Cornelius Lentulus Spinther



Another denarius that was described as "almost FDC" (fleur-de-coin) but not quite mint state was this one:

DOMITIAN 81 - 96 A.D.
AR Denarius (3.59 g.) Rome 73 A.D.
CAES AVG F DOMIT COS II Laureate head right. Rev. Domitian riding on horse prancing left, holding scepter in left hand and raising right



If you manage to purchase a mint state denarius within your current budget, please post it!

 

Also, as clarification as to how we are different than US coins. we simply do not CARE why a coin is deficient. Detail is missing because of wear/weak strike/worn die/corrosion/etc it DOESN"T MATTER. If I see a dealer trying to pull the old "weak strike" crud with an ancient, I immediately walk away and refuse to buy anything from him. We only care about details on the coin, how many are left, not the reason why. I honestly believe its a much better system than US collectors use.

Btw, I should have said FDC is our term for a MS coin. Its french. A FDC ancient is extremely rare, and pricey. I do not own one I do not believe, but own some gXF coins. In US parlance, a FDC would be a MS64+, while my gXF coins would probably rate anywhere from AU58-MS63.

 

Lots of great info here for newbs of ancient coins. It really is amazing that I have overlooked this category for so long. I think ancients are a more advanced taste in this hobby.

I haven't been this excited about the hobby since I began collecting Chinese Fat Man dollars. I think finding the best deals is something that comes with increased knowledge and patience. I plan on dedicating plenty of time in the next month or two to studying this category and the history.

Also, I suspect I may find better deals at some coin shows.

 

Like I said, patience may be the key with ancient coins. The coins I bought for under $20 I spent hours searching for on both eBay and Vcoins. It is possible better coins will eventually show up, and the more experienced collectors may have waited for that. Or, perhaps, there are other vendors with better deals. If so, please let me know of these other vendors.

I am gradually getting better quality coins. I paid $33 for this Caracalla denarius, and though it may be on the high side, it's progress toward better details on the coins. In my case, I think I wanted to just buy a whole bunch right away of different emperors. I didn't want to wait weeks to get these coins. But like I said, perhaps there are better vendors out there.