Here is another type of ancient, the Funan Kingdom of ancient SE Asia. The Funan kingdom was the first major civilization in this part of the world. They were heavily influenced by the Indian civilization, and in turn the Funan kingdom has influenced to this day the countries in SE Asia. Here are two recent purchases: The first one is earlier. The obverse, (left pic), is upside down btw. This is from the major period of the Funan empire, around 200-500 AD. The second pic is later, more around 700ad. On this one the right pic is upside down. This was probably not made by Funan, but more likely the successor kingdom of Dvaravati. Many consider the Dvaravati kingdom to be the first Siamese Kingdom. The second coin to me is interesting not just for my SE Asian collection, but also my Sassanid one. Anyone else see on the left pic a Sassanid fire alter like those depicted on Ardashir I issues, (stylized of course)? Here is an Ardashir coin for comparison:
those are very cool med, i haven't seen anything like the first one really. i have seen the second type, and now that you mention...yeah...that does look like a fire altar!
Those are really great pieces! I have just started to collect ancient coins, so I'll be watching this ancient forum more closely.
Lol, well if the "beaten path" of ancients are Greek and Roman, this is so far off the beaten path I doubt you could find it with a GPS and a squad of rangers. I have fairly esoteric tastes, sir, so if you are getting into ancients you might be better suited following others. Many of my coins even other ancient collectors kind of scratch their heads with.
Am I correct that there are a lot of more decorative coins sold as Funan that are all fakes? I recall being warned against these years ago and told that the style you show was what exists in genuine. Can you elaborate on this?
Yes, there are a tremendous amount of fakes out there. These two, (seller's photographs), match to known good examples from both "Siamese Coins, From Funan to the Fifth Reign" and Michiner's "Ancient coins and their values - Non Islamic States". I would never buy coins of Funan or Dvaravati from China or (unfortunately) Thailand unless you know the dealer very well AND you can match the styles up. Unfortunately, legitimate coins come in a variety of styles, since these two types were made over hundreds of years. So, you have to know your dealer, have a good reference on the pieces, (I recommend "Siamese Coins" VERY highly for this purpose), or buy certified examples if you are unsure. Since these are all pretty scarce pieces, I cannot recommend any dealer who has these in stock usually, but some of my pieces have come from Scott Semans, Steve Album, and the author of "Siamese Coins" who lives in Bangkok. Thanks Doug, I should have talked about the forgeries earlier. There are a lot of them, like many rare coins in Asia. Thankfully most are more tourist copies than legitimate collector fakes, but to someone unfamiliar with these coins at all, they might look similar. When in doubt, NEVER buy a coin that is not EXACTLY like in the book. You might miss out on a few real pieces, but Siamese coins illustrates about 50 different styles of authentic pieces, and about 30 styles of forgeries.
Great lookin' coins, medoraman (I've never seen/noticed these coins before ... they're very interesting)
Great pieces! I wouldn't have recognized the stylized fire altar without the comparison. You mentioned certification, but who has the knowledge to certify these? Vagi? Sear? Or is there someone that specializes in them?
Maybe NGC world coins certifies, idk. Best defense, of course, is good books, good dealers, and personal experience IMHO. I literally have no idea about the "fire alter". Tbh I just noticed the comparison when I was looking at this piece. I had seen the type before, even own a similar piece, yet for some reason this time I saw the fire alter. Does it mean they traded with persians, were influenced by indo sassanid issues, or its just a coincidence? I have no idea, but its cool.
I know nothing about them aside from the info you provided (never even heard of the Funan Kingdom until now), but interesting coins.
Thanks for showing and the background information ! Thesea are a bit to Eastern for my collection area, but you may very well be right about the Irano-Sasanian influences.
You are right, of course its upside down. I should have mentioned it. There are a lot of interrelationships between the Dvaravati and Pyu, and in many cases we are not exactly sure which towns were in which confederacy. The Dvaravati were in modern day northern Thailand. In fact, a friend lives in Lumphun, on the outskirts of Chiang Mai. Lumphun was one of the last Dvaravati cities captured by the Lanna in northern Thailand. So, you have Pyu in the central plains of Burma, Dvaravati in northern Thailand and southern Burma, and the cutoff between which cities where which is unknown. Both cultures were influenced mainly by India and the Funan culture, and copied their coins both from Funan and each other. What it boils down to is it depends from which perspective the author is looking to which civilization he attributes these two. "Siamese Coins" attributes these to Dvaravati, but a Burmese book will attribute these to Pyu. THe truth is probably somewhere in between. THere probably are specific ones to each culture, its just we don't have a great grasp on the differences yet. No Anoob, you are not alone pursuing esoteric little coins. Look at my avatar coin from Lanna Kingdom.
I was gonna ask you, that Lanna Kingdom piece is huge isnt it? 50 + grams silver. Is this 10th century?
Usually 11th-13th century. Its a Tok Nan piece I believe, (I have Tok Chiang Mai as well). Its about 62 grams of silver, very three dimensional. This is just a side. The weight was four baht, so just slightly short of two troy ounces. The baht is an ancient weight measure in SE Asia. Only in the 19th century did the baht turn into a monetary unit for Siam, (Thailand).
