So I'm back in the game after 30 years and want to get some gold I couldn't afford as a teenager. I find myself wavering trying to balance practicality and desire. It seems I can buy more types of coins in lower grades thus allowing me to collect more variety while keeping my "investment" closer to the spot price with less emphasis on the numismatic value. I'm really drawn to the Indian $5 and $10 and obviously the St Gaudens but also want some Liberty's. Yet at the same time I love the beauty of MS coins even though the common dates don't have any real return on investment. I do like the comfort of graded slabs knowing they are legit coins and problem free. Especially when I go to my local shop to look at loose coins that I know are real, but are they problem free? He shows me PCGS slabs that he sent in thinking they would come back MS63 and they get "detail" grades for either cleaned or scratches. For the life of me, I can't see anything indicative of cleaning but I guess it was. That starts to worry me about buying loose. And I look at the scratches that are very small and compare to "clean" slabbed coins online where I see much worse scratches. These "detail" coins are often very nice looking but now have a label attached to them. So then I start to strongly consider slabbed XF or AU and they are virtually non existent in common dates. So why don't people get lower graded gold slabbed? I see $85 Morgan common dates all over slabbed but not a $500-1500 gold XF or AU50 slabbed? Since I've decided to go with more variety in gold and not high grade what's the best route to pursue? Buy loose from the dealer that is trusted but maybe not the best coin grader in the world? Consider "genuine" or "detail" coins even though I personally would prefer a good VF over a cleaned MS63 yet at the same time a small scratch that does detract from the overall beauty doesn't bother me? Or keep looking for XF or AU slabs that seem to be rare or overpriced? If the later, any resource to locate such coins? Thanks for any help in advance.
As far as collecting is concerned, I would go with MS coins. But as an investment in gold, I would just go with nice raw AU coins that can be bought near spot.
Unless you really know pre 33' U.S. gold I would only buy slabbed coins versus buying raw coins imo. Although if you have a trusted dealer I'd certainly consider buying raw coins if the dealer stood behind them. But if as you mentioned your dealer has trouble telling a details coin from a MS gold coin; perhaps they've also been fooled on some counterfeit gold and just haven't shared that info with you. I'm sure there has been dealers out there that have knowingly then sold a coin as genuine that was body bagged as non genuine to an unsuspecting customer. Not saying your dealer would do this but I'd hate to be the customer ending up with a counterfeit coin if that situation did occur.
I am in a very similar situation. I'd love to get some Eagles for my US collection. But over here in Europe it's really hard to find slabbed coins, most coins are in raw condition and many are for good reason. I've been buying raw silver commemoratives for a while and just recently NGC marked 3 out of 5 coins as improperly cleaned. When I asked the NGC representative about it he agreed that it's really difficult to tell what exactly is wrong with them. He also mentioned that it's getting even more difficult with gold coins and he would strongly recommend to buy slabbed Eagles, for that reason and because of the counterfeits. As you mentioned, MS coins are quite expensive, so personally I am looking for higher AU grades now, knowing they may be overpriced. Details coins are no option for me.
If you're going for an investment you're in the wrong hobby . Buying coins at retail and then taking a loss at selling is a hard way to earn any money especially with inflation eating at your profits . Though for pure enjoyment buy what you like . If you like MS coins buy them , If you don't mind detailed coins , there's a lot of beautiful coins out there that are quite reasonable , but a lot of collectors try to stay away from them even if they can;t see why they're detailed . High AU gold can have better eye appeal than low MS coins . Me I try to buy the best I can afford , which is usually the best way to go . But only you know what you like , variety or higher quality , it's up to you and that's why I love this hobby . About fakes stay with well respected sellers or buy slabbed , but sadly today even slabs are faked so I stay with sellers I trust unless I know the series .
I'm 100% confident my guy knows his gold because they have a large jewelry store with custom jewler as part of the business. He has over 100 gold coins in stock with thousands of other coins. He's in his late 20's, taking over the coin part from the retired owner. The owners son runs everything but is a gem guy. He's learning and probably one of the best in town. But he's certainly not an expert. Good at grading sub MS stuff but it gets tough after that. Plus, I'm a platinum customer having a wife and daughter with expensive taste they will stand behind anything I buy. My only other store is very small with a disinterested owner that seems happy to sell state quarters and silver eagles. He has enough inventory to buy a low grade type set but only 2 gold coins total and maybe 8 slabbed coins. His lack of interest in helping me with a 20 cent piece turned me off. Me might have the best knowledge in the business but he's pretty much checked out in the customer service department. I've checked online and it seems even AU 50 stuff is carrying a $300+ premium over spot. That's slabbed though and slabbed is probably the only way I'll buy online unless they have a great reputation. APMEX are like $200 over spot on XF sight unseen and that's a real chance to get something with no eye appeal. Plus, that takes the fun out of picking your coin. I'll get it figured out eventually, but gold might be $2K/oz before I have the courage to pull the trigger.....LOL
On the bright side it may be down to $800 , myself I'm hoping for $700 gold then I'll get the double eagles I should have bought when gold was a few hundred . lol
I must have been typing as you submitted this. I totally agree. I know it's not an investment. But while I do have more disposable income now with kids gone, I still have to justify wants vs needs and keep in a budget. I want gold coins. But at what cost. I also want to put together a quality type set with better grade coins. When I can buy 3-5 MS coins for a type set at the same price of one gold coin I have to find a compromise. One thing I know, I can always upgrade from XF or AU to MS if I want to later so that might be the ticket. Thanks for the advice.
1 spend my spare time searching/purchasing U.S. Gold coins. I personally wouldn't purchase raw Gold coins from anyone other than rolls of Gold Eagles in original sealed tubes from a mint authorized dealer, or Proof Gold in the original holders. I personally generally purchase only U.S. slabbed Gold coins, especially the incuse Indian. I find it somewhat hilarious that someone would hesitate to purchase a century old beautiful slabbed Gold coin at 25% over spot, but are elated to purchase slabbed Silver coins at appreciable multiples of spot. I'm elated to acquire these beautiful slabbed Gold treasures at these relatively low premiums. However, you will find the "incuse indian" design "slabbed" Gold coin a very desirable commodity which will generally be difficult to locate at a 50% premium, which.I often offer without acceptance. I believe you'll find the raw modern Gold Eagle to have the lowest premium, but relatively difficult to resell. Liberty Double Eagles generally have the lowest premium, but buyers generally prefer the St. Gaudens design. Selling a "raw" Gold coin generally is a problem relative to selling a slabbed coin. JMHO, Rich
Why are so few circulated common date gold coins slabbed? Because there is little reason to do so. Most of our countries gold coins are common, and in grades below say AU 58 are mostly considered bullion. An EF 1901 $5 or an AU 1904 $20 for example, are worth about the same - graded or not. Costs for grading gold coins add up quickly when you consider 2 way shipping and insurance, grading fees, submission fees and club membership. Any extra value for the slabbing won't justify the costs. The last gold coin I sent in cost me over $50 in fees. In this case it was worth it - a $5 Liberty that came back ms64. I have a bunch of raw BU $5, $10 and $20 Liberties that will stay raw - but I only buy from trusred dealers. For coins with values that far exceed their melt value, slabbing is a must. Such as: incuse gold, gold $1, $3, and better dates as these have been highly counterfeited. As for detecting cleaning, on gold it can be tough. Besides hairlines, often the graders will reject gold if the color or texture seems "off".
