How do you attribute Full Head SLQs?

Title is what I am after.

How do you identify what constitutes a Full Head SLQ. How much of the detail needs to be visible to gain this designation?

Are there any photo guides or websites that clarify where the line is drawn. There was just a great article posted about FBLs on Franklins that showed what made it FBL, what was close, and what clearly wasnt FBLs. Looking for something similar here.

Thanks

 

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Sorry I can't help with the FH attribution, but could you post the link to that FBL thread?

 

I can't remember who posted it or where exactly it was at. Very informative though and lots of pictures.

Maybe someone else remembers it, I think it was within the last 2 weeks.

 

The standard for "Full Head" features is: "All details in hair are well defined: hairline along face is raised and complete: eyebrow is visible: cheek is rounded.
It should be noted that the TPG have taken extraordinary liberties with the standard, in the namesake of "Market Grading", and I believe one should use slabbed specimens posted on eBay as a reference.
Whenever I'm in an exchange of coins, I take at least 2 different TPG firms slabbed specimens (occasionally 3) of any coins I'm selling to a serious large quantity buyer. Buyers generally expect coins to be graded to the Copyright 1977 A.N.A. standards, which appear generally too Conservative an expectation with the Liberal current TPG "standards"?
There have been some excellent posts in this venue of "Full Head" slabbed S.L.Quarters, including one of mine which is as fine an example as I've yet seen.
J.M.H.O., Rich

 

Yup.

Thank you very much!

 

Would you care to post yours again in this thread?

 

I don't think there are enough posts about this topic. I wrote a thread years ago that briefly discussed the qualifications for full head but was more related to the value of full head SLQ's

Standing Liberty Quarters---The Full Head Debate

I used to own a 1930-S SLQ NGC MS67 FH which I actually sent into NGC for a grade review because I did not think that it met the qualifications for full head.



The three sprigs are clearly evident, but IMO, the hair line is not distinct and the earhole is not present. NGC disagreed and placed the following hand written message on my invoice:

"We have re-inspected your coin and have determined the coin is FH. The sprigs in the hair are defined as is the ear hole and the definition of the hair along the face. Rick"

Personally, I think the best way to understand the strike designation is to post examples of coins and then discuss why the coin "does" or "does not" qualify for the strike designation. The problem with this series is that full head SLQ's are very expensive and very few people on the forums collect them. So asking people to show examples is usually and effort in futility.

 

Wow, what a coin.

I was looking at this one and it seems fairly close from this picture.



I feel it's going to be a nice example, but it's not designated as a full head.

 

I agree with you Paul , I have an NGC graded MS-63 FH designation on a SLQ I bought when I was just getting back in the hobby , It's hairline is weaker than yours and has no ear hole like yours . Yours is at most 3/4 FH IMHO . It's amazing what the tpgs will pass as FH today .


There is an allowed 5% weakness allowed , as no coin will have complete seperation above a certain magnification of say 10X .
To qualify as FH in type I is all intended details sharp and crisp with separation between the hair and helmet .
For Type II , there should be three distinct leaves or sprigs present that are separated from each other . The hairline must be distinct around the face , and an ear hole must be present . This was taken from the PCGS Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit detection .

 

Here's a pic of my Type I 1917-P that does meet the FH designation IMO. If you hit the pic it will enlarge to about 15X mag or whatever Heratige used to use .

 

That might be it. Even if it's not, still a good reference.
In Rick Tomaska' Franklin & Kennedy Half Dollar Guide there's a nice write up with 8 pictures explaining FBL that is worth a look for anyone interested in the series.

 

1. It's in the CoinTalk archives which I've been unable to access, but it is virtually identical to current eBay auction #181248771222 which has a great Obverse image, if someone could "link" to this site. Four of my computers linked by a KVM network switch were destroyed in a recent lightning storm, only leaving me with "dial-up" which severely limits internet transmissions, especially of voluminous files. If that auction can be linked, I believe you'll appreciate the "Full Head" exquisite example. JMHO

 

I'm trying to link to the internet, and eBay auction #181248771222 which has beautiful images, but even though I depress the link icon in this format using a Vista operating system, it will not accomodate. Would someone please link that auction which shows what I believe is an optimum 1917-D Full Head specimen?

 

I'm trying to link to the internet, and eBay auction #181248771222 which has beautiful images, but even though I depress the link icon in this format using a Vista operating system, it will not accomodate. Would someone please link that auction which shows what I believe is an optimum 1917-D Full Head specimen?

 

Here we go:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18124877122...sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=181248771222&_rdc=1

 

This was the coin i was looking at:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131069525919?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Looks like someone picked it up already, should I have gotten this coin as a close full head example for an MS-63? The price was marked as just slightly above what a non FH coin lists for, so i thought it was a close example and could be worthy of taking a shot at. A Full Head example lists for about $400 for that grade and date, so a nice score if someone got it at the $235 price and it will go FH

 

Bowers' advice from what I have read is to look at ALL of the details, not just FH, FT, FBL, 5/6 FS, FSB, etc. He says its nice those details are marked on the holder, but if you pay attention you should be buying coins that exhibit Full Details everywhere possible and not necessarily focused on one particular part of the coin.

For example, you can have a FH SLQ, that's weak elsewhere. Or a Full Torch but mushy legends on the Roosevelt's or what ever else you want to apply this thinking to. I happen to agree with him, but how do you determine where the line is between FH, and not quite FH? I think for the money, the coin I linked is a good buy, lots of luster, lots of head detail, but I'm not sure it would cross and regrade with the designation. For my collection it would be fine, but if reselling I'm sure it would be nice to achieve that FH designation.

 

Now that you have posted the coin which I referenced as a nice specimen of "Full Head", you might note that the images don't allow a "close-up" of the detail, as many lesser graded coins frequently exhibit. I believe the head features are worthy of the grade, but I would not purchase that coin in MS67 grade if the details are as I suspect from the images posted. I erred in stating 1917-D which I possess, with an obverse having greater continuity in detail. Bowers is correct, and I personally believe this coin justify his concerns which you elaborated. Even I discounted the lack of mint mark, failure for "close-up" examination, especially of the Reverse, after examining the "Full Head" detail. JMHO