Is It Unethical to Not Disclose Knowledge to Dealer?

My two cents after taxes and adjusted for inflation is that the majority of coin dealers I have encountered would not hesitate to get one over on someone in order to make a quick buck. The fact that you did it to one of them helps balance out the universe. Congratulations.

 

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Getting a good deal is being a shrewd businessman. As others have said, it's not right if you're taking advantage of non-coin-collectors who inherit coins and trust you to give them a fair deal. It's another thing to underpay from a dealer or in an auction. For me getting deals this way is one of the most satisfying things about collecting. Some people like to act like they're the second coming of Jesus when it comes to things like this, but you don't need to feel bad because you don't measure up to their standards. There's nothing wrong with getting a good deal. You'll overpay for a lot of things in life and no one will feel bad for you. You are allowed to come out ahead on some deals too.

 

To the OP. Ethical police eh? I agree with you on the question, but I believe that it wasn't the right move to whine about a member, and then post a link to the thread, identifying him.

Just saying if you don't like being criticized, don't be too hard on others.

Even if they deserve it.

 

Not even close to being unethical.

Several years back, before I was a member on this forum, I had listed on coin on the 'Bay with a BIN price. Within 15 minutes it was sold. My intial glee was short lived as I started to have a sinking feeling in my gut. I was right, I missed a variety and I was cherry picked. So I packed up the coin and shipped it with a thank you note.

As it turns out, that buyer happens to be a very respected member of this forum. The buyer did nothing wrong, I never held a grudge and in fact, I feel that I would have been the unethical one if I backed out of the deal.

 

The pawn shop probably deserved it, after all I don't imagine they paid very much for the coins from whatever person they had bought them from.

 

What's the point of being more knowledgable than the other guy if can't rip his face off without feeling guilty about it? "You snooze you lose."

 

I don't see a problem with getting a good deal from a pawn shop purchase. After all, they likely purchased the item for less, too, and I highly doubt they would track down the seller to give more money to them.

By the way, I am a full-time dealer.

 

I cherry pick dealers all the time and never offer a bonus (later) for buying low and selling higher.
Junk boxes, display cases or anything they have for sale.

 

Hello, my name is John... and I'm a cherrypicker.

 

I don't have a problem with it. That's just the way the hobby works.
I feel the thread got heated because of the way you said things.
When you brag about getting several key dates from someone that knows nothing about coins, it just sounds bad to some.

 

You also should look at the flip side. Though this forum is anonymous, the member questioned my character in front of others rather than take things privately. This member has yet to apologize for his behavior. It's one thing to respectfully disagree about ethical matters, but it's another to rip someone else apart publicly without trying to find all of the facts and understanding the gray area involved. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

 

I have an issue with self-righteousness. Perhaps that's the real issue here. Anyway, the feedback I have received has made me feel better overall about the hobby and this forum.

 

I know, it just seems that you (justifiably) got very mad about it, then turned around did something similar.

Just saying, "Do onto others..." and yes the other member was wrong, but you might smear your own name if you keep on going with this.

 

I agree that it should be dropped. I am glad I started this thread, because I was genuinely interested in understanding the ethics of numismatism. I wanted to get a feel for how collectors think about the ethical issues in the hobby. I think this thread will be of help to others.

 

To clarify something, my avatar features the stoic philosopher Marcus Aurelius. A stoic must aim to reach universal moral ideals and remain pragmatically grounded in the world. What can be confusing is that this hobby is innately capitalistic -- we selfishly want to maximize our own gains -- and yet ethics, as most people conceive them, are based on living harmoniously with others and helping them. I know Adam Smith and others tried to square these, but these are very complex issues.

 

excellent comments, Jolumoga.

 

Well, I wish you luck on your impossible quest.

 

You used knowledge and effort to get the upper hand on someone who any prudent person would assume to be your equal. It only appears complex because we live in an upside down freak show where failure is victimization. He lost. It's nature telling him that his methods suck.

 

When buying or selling from either side of the table at a club show, local, state, or national, I always consider it a peer-to-peer transaction. I will not cherry pick a club member from either side of the table. If a dealer offers something unreasonably below market, and I know better, I will ask if they know this fact, also. Most often they do. Sometimes not. But my goal is always to invest in the relationship whenever possible.

 

These comments have made me think more deeply about the ethics in the hobby and about the general sentiment among collectors. It appears that most (not all) numismatists believe dealers, because they have a duty to be aware of their merchandise, are fair game to be cherry-picked. I personally believe cherry-picking is one of the joys of the hobby. There is an indescribable rush knowing you landed a valuable coin for far below its market value. While some might see this as ethically problematic, it's just a matter of being rewarded for your superior knowledge, which equates to actual labor (it is a skill to memorize the values of a vast number of coin types, or even to grab the basics of numismatism).

On the other hand, most numismatists feel that dealers should be held to a higher standard, given their level of expertise, or at least expertise expected of them. Most coin collectors therefore view a coin dealer paying a naïve person a fraction of his or her coins as unprofessional or morally problematic.

I respect this general sentiment, though I feel all rational adults should do their homework before they buy or sell, and coins are included. This is why we got punished in elementary school for not doing our homework: because in the real world there are consequences for laziness or irresponsibility.

I believe I followed the golden rule because this world would be chaotic if losers were constantly rewarded for their behavior or given a second chance.