Continued from my introduction thread - I’m back and ready to have that coin talk now…

Continued from my introduction thread - I’m back and ready to have that coin talk now…

I would like to first re-post the coin that started it all… I can now honestly see the reason for the whizzed comments back in 2009. However, I truly do not think this coin was whizzed…

First up from “The Box” is a 1852 large cent which is, in my opinion, a double/multi struck obv with a uniface rev (I should probably be calling it a blank rev but I like the term uniface hahaha)

I’m posting the photos 6 per page with a high enough resolution that you should be able to zoom in for more details. If the forum software compacts uploaded photos and zoom isn’t possible I can post them individually for your viewing enjoyment. Just let me know.

If you look around the obv collar it’s clear to see what looks to me like stars. Looking below the date in-between and slightly below the 8 and 2 it looks like another 8 and 2. Now here is where I get confused and I have to admit I have no other large cents to compare it to, the weight is wrong at 9.3. One thought is that it is a split planchet struck with another planchet under it? The only other coin I can come up with even close to this weight would be from Peru, as far fetched as that sounds!

I truly do not believe it is whizzed and here’s why: The sheet of coins that came out of “The Box” seemed like a random collection without any clue as to what my grandfather or great grandfather was collecting, or at least that was how it first appeared to me. At this point I was fascinated with error coins and set the sheet away to hunt for errors. Every once in awhile I’d pull out the sheet and wonder why such a random collection of coins. At this point the coins were all still in their 2x2’s in the plastic holder and then it hit me (just a mere five years later, doh), since I had such a fascination for errors what if he was collecting errors? This hit me while I was driving and hours away from the coins so I couldn’t just go check, thought I would come out of my skin with anticipation. Needless to say when I got home, I pulled them all out of their 2x2’s and under a 10x loupe and the examination began and sure enough the very next coin after the large cent was an error coin, as are many of the coins. Now other than the US large cent the rest of the coins are from other countries. Since I was not familiar with how other countries coins should look, the process to figure out just what the errors are has been slow with some of the errors still unidentified. Note - My family is from Scotland, Glasgow / Edinburgh so some of the coins are of course from GB. Other countries include Mexico, Brazil, Australia, Peru, France, Canada…

Here are some of the double struck / uniface Large Cent photos

 

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Someone shaved the reverse of that coin, possibly to make a love token but never completed it.

 

Ok, then what? Stamped the stars on the obv? lol Why would anyone ruin a perfectly good error coin?
I do see what you're saying ziggy9 but there are so many other factors to consider that I respectfully disagree...
Am I supposed to hit the reply under each comment I'm replying to? I feel like I'm doing this wrong?

 

When I look at a supposed error coin, first question I ask myself is "Is that really how this coin came out from the mint?" Now if that's the way your coin came out, then probably it would not have seen much use being only one sided, you wouldn't want to try spending a uniface coin at a store. So then why is it so used? And why is the weight off by over 1 gram, when the blanks for these coins were supposed to weigh more? Someone struck this on a grossly underweight planchet? My opinion is 100 percent PMD. Not an expert though so wait for more replies from the more experienced members. Good luck

 

I'm in the PMD camp . I also don't see the stars you're seeing .

 

It's just a damaged coin. Sorry but it's what it is.

 

What is the weight on that large cent? The theoretical perfect weight would be 10.89 grams, I would venture a guess that a shaved down coin to produce a love token would take off much more weight than the wear shown in the OP photos. If it was 10.7 grams I would wonder why the toning on the reverse is so different from the obverse.

That is assuming that the pictures faithfully depict the coins color

 

Let's move on to some of the other coins that were with the large cent. They are the reason I believe the first coin may be an error...

The next coin up from "The Box" is a 1944 Brasil 20 Centavos... Let me know if you need me to point out why I think this is a DDO? I'm almost inclined to say this is more from die damage from old worn dies? I think it's a nice error but since I've seen several such examples like this from Brazil, I've come to think it may be fairly common?

 

cool doubling. I am no0t sure if it's die doubling or machine doubling.

 

If you still aren't convinced that the Braided Hair cent isn't PMD, then consider this........

Let's assume that the obverse die was the hammer. (I believe it usually is the hammer die.) If there was no reverse die in place as the anvil, what was the planchet sitting on before striking?

If the reverse die was supposed to be the hammer, but no reverse die was in place, the planchet could not have been struck to produce the obverse devices.

Also, note that the reverse does not have an up-turned rim, but since each planchet goes through the upsetting mill before striking, it suggests that it was ground away with the rest of the reverse.

I'm in the PMD camp.

Your Brazilian coin appears to be machine doubling. It looks "flat and shelf-like".

Chris

 

What is the weight of the large cent? If it's siginificantly lower than the tolerance level, it has to be filed away. Can be done with the right tools.

 

what you are calling stars on the rim of the cent are marks left by whatever tool they held the coin with when they ground it down. on the second coin it is machine doubling as evidenced by the "IL' being decreased in width from the doubling.

 

the 20 cent brasilian coin from 1944 is machine doubling.. its not a true double die like the 55 lwc.. or the 95lwc..

 

mostly caused by die deterioration still cool tho..

 

If you really believe that large cent is a DDO and "uniface" send it to NGC or PCGS.
But I'd be willing to bet my life savings it'd come back as damaged.

 

agreed, 1st coin PMD, 2nd coin MD...

 

Is it possible it was sitting on top of another blank?
Granted I have gone back and forth on the rim issue myself, it does look abrupt. Perhaps what I'm thinking look like stars on the obverse are actually grip marks from a tool that held it while it was cut. I concur, it's most likely PMD.

The Brazilian - I agree it's not a doubled die. The railroad rim on the reverse implies, to me, slippage of some sort. Ejection doubling? Does machine doubling encompass ejection doubling?

 

Probably so, that's why they haven't been sent, grin.

 

Thanks Ken

 

What are 55lwc and 95lwc?