Counterfeit casting glob or mint error?

Hi all, looking for some opinions on this coin. Is the featureless mass by the left pillar a blob left over from a casting process or could it potentially be some sort of error on a genuine coin? I have little to no knowledge of errors so I'm wondering if something like that could occur naturally.

 

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If the area is raised, ti would be unlikely. A better image would be helpful. What I think you have here is a cleaned coin, with chop marks, and the raised part is possibly a filled chopmark. That's my read assuming this is a common piece.

If it turns out this is an expensive or rare date, I'd lean toward a fake.

 

I'd say possible fake .

 

Does the coin have signs of soldering anywhere on the edge or other side? The metal will puff up like this sometimes due to the high heat of soldering.

 

Can you give us a photo of the opposite side? Could also be a filled hole.

 

I'll get some better photos up later today.

 

Also a photo of the edge if you could , thanks .

 

Here's what I've got so far, I'll try to get a picture of the edge up later. The weight is fine, but I haven't run a specific gravity test as I don't have a scale with a high enough capacity. The color's a bit off, though polishing has at least something to do with that. As you can see, there's an indistinct area on the obverse as well, at five o'clock.

Now that I'm taking a closer look at it, the 8R also appears to be pretty mushy.

 

The "blob" could be where they chop marked the coin , if done on a wood surface it would push out the opposite side .

 

The lack of detailing and whatever that cud is makes me think fake still . Also the dentils and the lack of any flow lines is a red flag .. But I'd say fake . Hope I'm wrong .

 

doe's not look kosher....?

 

The placement and style of lettering and details is correct, the dentils are also correct and I would not expect to see flow lines on this coin considering all the wear and tear. Don't see any of the surface roughness or porosity usually seen on cast counterfeits either. Would be quite surprised if this coin turns out to be fake.

 

Here's one With about the same wear , the details are a lot sharper . You're right about the flow lines , but the other coins details look not cast but struck with a bad transfer die .

 

The new forthcoming book to be released at the American Numismatic Society on counterfeit Portrait 8 Reales in late 2014 will help with questions like this coin. On genuine pieces their is normally an overlap area 180* apart from one another for the edge design (i.e., overlap of the circle/square designed edge). Viewing the edges of these pieces is critical. Also the weight is normally in a tight range between 26-27 grams. This could be die wear but its an interesting coin if the edge and weight translate to being normal.

John Lorenzo
United States

 

Here's a picture of the edge from the 12 o'clock position. The coin weighs in at 26.59g. If there's even a small chance that it's fake, I think I'm going to return it. I doubt the seller had any bad intentions though, I'm sure he thought it was genuine.

 

To me its a keeper - due to the fact in this series (Portrait 8R's) having any type of die making defect - even a specimen struck from worn? dies is worth a premium.

John Lorenzo
United States

 

So what do you think caused that cud like raising around the date and general mushiness in the details ? I've never seen a Carolous dollar like this . But it is far from my expertise .

 

Edge looks good. Could simply have been a greasy, eroded die.

 

genuine

 

Thanks very much for all your feedback so far. I purchased the coin as part of a lot, here are the other coins. Anything look off? One potential red flag for me was the edge on one of them has a smooth portion with what looks like diagonal indentations. Just PMD?