Ancient - Who Doesn't Love Budget Coins?

Yeah seriously.

 

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Eh, personally my motto is "every coin deserves a home". While I understand and appreciate the advice given to try to collect better specimens, I never second guess a collectors purchases. Especially something like Frank Robinson's bargain list. Come on, buying a coin for $5-30? That is not much different that a #1 at McD's. I perused his list, (quickly, as you must do), selected 8 coins but only got one. I just a Julian II issue where the made coins showing the old gods. $6. Do I give a GD that is was just in F? No, since I didn't have one, and it was $6.

I own $1000 coins, I now own a $6 one. I am not saying which is "better", because they are ancient coins, and that is just REALLY COOL I can own them at all, you know? Price is only a determinant to me where I must budget my purchases, its not MY OPINION of their value TO ME. When I am dead and others simply consider my entire coin collection to be one big lump of trash, WHO CARES! It was important TO ME, it made ME happy, and isn't that what a hobby is about?

Just my opinion. Cool pickups OP.

 

In what parallel universe is the comment:

"Huh => I actually find kaparthy to be a bit of a pain ...

Dude, if you don't collect coins and all you do is merely "write", then I suggest that you don't hang-around and irritate my coin-friends if and when they decide to buy a coin that you feel is not up to snuff ..."

anything other than a personal attack? Are you saying that just because the poster offers an "apology" in the same post makes it OK to launch the personal attack in the first place? Seriously?

Would you feel OK if you were called "a bit of a pain" and told not to "...hang-around and irritate my coin-friends..." just because you stated an unpopular opinion and the attacker "apologized" for his attack? I'll bet not.

If you disagree with a coin-collecting opinion then just go ahead and state "I disagree with this poster's opinion and here's why:..." If Kaparthy's wording of his opinion ventures into a personal attack, then fine, call him out on that and suggest that he write his future opinions to be more objective and less personal.

 

Perhaps he could have worded it differently. However, the situation is still "I bought these coins. I like them" and the response was "Don't buy the coins".

If my imaginary girlfriend told me all about the great time she had with her family over the weekend and my response was "Sounds pretty boring, don't you have something better to do?" then yeah I'd expect to be called a pain, or worse.

 

Kaparthy's opinion was very valid in context, but I didn't think he explained the context as much as he could have. Steve has already apologized, and I am sure he regrets his posts. Ides and Geoff are second tier PO'ed, so I am hoping both can get over it as well.

Anyone have any pretty coins they have bought lately? I don't have any photos of coins, but I just bought Coins of Roman Antioch book by McAlee, and am pretty excited to read it. Anyone have a copy and wish to share their opinions of it?

 

I wish I got this much response on my threads. Sheesh.

Steve- Calm down, stop embarrassing yourself.

Ides- Chill out. I would rather hear you comment on my coins then develop such an obvious argument against Steve.

Kaparthy-To each, his own. Valid Argument.

Geoff - You like ancients?

Whiz- Nice coins. Remember you don't always select the coin sometimes the coin selects you.

 

I do like ancients. I don't have a large collection or a large amount of knowledge. I tried the uncleaned thing but didn't have much success at that. I also bought a small collection from a member here which I feel is fantastic. I have no interest in modern coins, except for Detecto threads.

I've been saving money and for now the plan is to start buying one budget ($25-$50) coin a month. For now I think I will be focusing on females, after I buy a Ptolemy.

If I post one of my budget coins and I'm told to save my money, it won't go over well.

 

I'm with you bro. We just had a thread where we all commented how nice it was that there are few, if any, personal attacks on this forum. Wow, did that ever come to an end here.

Personally, I found nothing offensive in either of the posts by kaparthy or steve. And IoM I like you man. You're a great asset to this area of numismatics. But you're attack on steve was worse than the supposed attack on kaparthy. Let's let this end here before we have all out war and I have to move to Manatoba.

 

The Canucks might just throw your rear back out if you continue to misspell Manitoba like that.

 

Personally, I've been working to avoid budget coins wherever possible. That's not to say one should only buy expensive coins, but focus on buying coins which are very nice for the type and grade.

I'm not familiar with the sale mentioned by the OP, but it sounds like it was sight-unseen? I've never even been a buyer of US coins sight-unseen, let alone ancients. I'd strongly advise to stay away from that type of sale, especially when you just bought a coin and expect to not have it for long - transaction costs can be expensive with coins. I imagine that most dealers will have been given the opportunity to "pick through" these coins ahead of the sale as well, so you're probably not going to find a major rarity which went missed.

I'm building my collection slowly with the intent to hold onto each of the coins I buy now for 20+ years, which is a long time in today's collecting age. This means that whenever I buy a new coin, it has to be something I'll be happy to look at for the next 20 years.

As stated famously by Warren Buffet: “Only buy something that you’d be perfectly happy to hold if the market shut down for 10 years.”

 

Nevermind.

 

Just as a FYI AncientJoe, it was a bargain list put out by Frank Robinson. No pics because they were cheap coins, but most anyone who has ever dealt with him will vouch for his honesty and conservative grading. So, it is what it is. I bought a coin for $6 of a type I do not own. Would I pay $100 for a gVF example, (the going price on these "pagan" issues)? No, I wouldn't. So for $6 I own a coin that is very interesting, historical, and one I would not normally own.

Many of us, (including me), love the HISTORY that these coins teach us. I might be a little more well off than some others here, but I simply do not have a $100,000 a year coin budget allowing me to buy pristine XF examples of every coin that fascinates me. So, especially for coins that are not my main collecitng focus, buying budget examples of an interesting piece is better than buying NO examples.

No offense meant Joe, I hope the tone of this post is not belligerent. Its simply trying to explain why many collectors are open to lower end coins at times. Yes, many higher end collectors simply refer to all of these types of coins as "floor sweepings", but what should be done with all F and lower grade coins? Melted down? SOMEONE has to own them, and my hope is they are owned by collectors who love and cherish them, and learn from them.

 

medoraman: I agree that there are always buyers for any coin, and a 'F' or lower example is still perfectly fine - that's not what I'm critiquing (as I said to look for quality coins for their type and grade, even if that grade is low; you most definitely don't have to spend even $50/year to have a significant amount of fun collecting ancients, and indeed, that's what I did for the first 10 years of my ancient coin collecting).

But, I would still never buy a coin sight-unseen, even for $6 or $0.06, no matter who described it. For how easy it is to take a picture (especially because everyone has a camera in their phone now) or put a dozen coins on a flatbed scanner, and how inexpensive it is to host pictures online, even the cheaper sellers should be able to show them - if they spent the time describing a coin, they can snap a picture. Going back a handful of years, I agree that images would be more of a luxury, but not today. Worst case, just wait until the next show comes around and dig through some bargain bins - then you get to see more coins overall and pick which ones you really like.

As someone who has bought many US coins, there have been many coins graded by PCGS and CAC'd which I honestly would never want to own at any price, and the same is much more relevant for ancients.

I am firm in this belief because I've been nearly burned on coins that experienced dealers described as fantastic which ended up being the antithesis of something I would want in my collection when I saw them. If I don't like something the first time I see it, no amount of cognitive dissonance is going to change that.

 

Some good replies here even if a few are a bit overly opinionated. That said my personal opinion is that I PREFER those dinged, worn, scratched and circulated coins. They have a history and a sense of wonder that the shiny MS70s will always lack. MS70s and the like are more coin "investing" then collecting. I admit I own a near complete set of proof sets and have a box or 2 of slabbed MS coins but it is the less then perfect that I truly love. The 2 best examples of this I could give is my $20 Large cent set (over 40 coins now) and my $50 bust half set (up to 5 coins now in it's 3rd month) none of these coins are perfect, but if the time ever comes that I have to sell off some of my coins (not something I do often) I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it will be the proofs and mint coins that go 1st. All in all collecting coins is about what YOU the collector enjoy not what some wannabe coin-Nazi on some forum thinks you should collect.

 

I only response sir would be:

1. If you haven't dealt with Frank Robinson, an old fashioned honest grader, then maybe you just don't know why most of us trust his grading impeccably. He is one of only two or three dealers I would accept his verbal grade sight unseen. His "bargain list" is hundreds of coins that sell out in minutes.

2. A whole lot of collectors live nowhere near large cities with ancient coin shows. Telling people "just wait until the next coin show to go through a pick box" is a little disingenuous to those of us who live hundreds of miles away from, and it costs us hundreds of dollars to attend, a major ancient show. To a large percentage of collectors, picking through a pick box is but a dream. Frank Robinson's bargain list is the closest they will ever get to such an activity.

 

Oops!

 

To toss another log into the flame, there is some circulated ancients that acquired the most lovely type of toning and wear that compliments the coin then some "EF" example thats shiny/untoned could ever have. So much eye appeal for an affordable price.

I still miss this coin I sold to bing, I havent seen more enjoyable example of the type, to my eyes/taste anyways. I am still glad it went to a good home though.

 

And I thank you for the chance to own such a magnificent coin!!!

 

The bottom line is whether we value the coins for what they are or for what they are worth (to paraphrase the Frank Robinson quote). I like pretty coins that are fully identifiable but hate to see people paying high level prices for coins no better than could be bought from Frank Robinson's bargain list for $6. I see nothing wrong with buying 1000 coins for $1 each or one $1000 coin unless it crosses the line and turns into a class war like we see here. I have to agree with mrweaseluv's view on coin-Nazis. This is a hobby. If all that is important to you is how much you will sell the coin for tomorrow or in 20 years, this is not a hobby for you but an investment. I would be OK if the coin market tanked to the point that I could buy coins at 1960 (or 1860) prices but I still would buy coins I find interesting and not care whether the coin-Nazis were happy or not. Hobby items once purchased are all worthless as long as they are never sold. I use the same money for coins that I use to eat out (Wendy's 99 cent menu), see movies (matinee with senior discount) or go on vacation (to visit great grandma) - all things that expect zero return of capital. Coin investments are a different matter. I don't invest.

 

I'm always surprised at how people misinterpret the suggestion to buy coins which are of good quality for the grade and type as being mutually exclusive from being a collector, and instead just "investing in coins" (which I presume means buying something and throwing it a box and never caring about it?) Regardless of who you are or why you collect, the purpose of my post was that quality is a very important consideration. It doesn't matter if you are buying EF coins or culls, quality for the grade and type is crucial. Of course not everyone has the same budget, but I highly doubt anyone posting on a coin forum cares only about what the coins will sell for when it comes time to sell. I look for coins with no "but" - I can't say to myself, "This would be a perfect coin for my collection BUT it has X wrong with it". This will vary depending on who you are (some people like graffiti, some don't mind if it is off-centered) but this is exactly why I can't buy coins sight-unseen: everyone has slightly different criteria which will denote if they will/will not like a coin.

The other part of my post with wanting to buy coins which I'll be willing to hold on to for 20 years isn't related to the appreciation in value - who knows what individual types will be doing in 20 years - but rather, it's a quest for long-term consistency and buying coins which I like enough to not want to resell in the near to long term. Everything has an opportunity cost: having $6 tied up in one coin is $6 less which you have to buy the next one which may come around. I want to have a collection where I would be willing to take every piece to my grave and be proud of it along the line.

To medoraman's point, if you have no ability to access coins in person and trust Frank Robinson's opinion, then that's fine, but based on the OP's line of "I don't think the Gordian will stay will me long though since I already have a better example", it seems like this was a bit of a surprise and it would have saved some future effort to have waited for an example they preferred.