Hey folks. Here I believe I have found a 1957D 1c WDDO-001 with an RPM. The combined die markers (obv. diagonal die gouge under left side of top of T in LIBERTY {stages A-F}; rev. parallel die scratches ENE of T in CENT {stages E-G} ) indicate either stage E or F. Here are some photos; I'd like some input. Thanks!
Die 1 does not have an RPM. I don't think yours is die 1...I would say it has MD judging by the date/mm. http://coppercoins.com/lincoln/diestate.php?date=1957&die_id=1957d1do001&die_state=lds
This is what I use for a reference. The second reverse is not pictured, or even mentioned, in the link you provided. The underlined portions apply to my coin; the one with a star is not referenced in your link. View attachment 292955 edited - copyright
That site needs some updating.... not even the markers are listed there. I see the '57 isn't listed in LincolnCentResource either.... That's why I loves my books! It is, however listed in the CONECA master listing, here: http://www.varietyvista.com/Variety Master Listings/lincoln doubled dies 1956-1958.htm
heres the photos coppercoins uses for DDO-001 I think non cents should of said loose die, because thats what causes MD, once the die is tighten, no more MD, also make sure your coin matches theses photos, otherwise not DDO-001
@Rick Stachowski That reference is outdated. see the photos from the book I posted, as well as the Coneca master listing I linked to, and you will see that both Coppercoins and LincolnCentResource could use some updating. Die markers listed in my book are "Not Yet Known" in the link he provided. Those pictures show only ONE die state of ONE die pair. There are more. Those sites are not all-encompassing. Mine is LDS obverse die + EDS reverse die. I'm leaning toward Stage F as the NE die scratches are evident in my pic #1 from LIBERTY to head.
staging is what I think your talking about, thoses photos (coppercoins) I would say are from the original DDO, staging comes as more is found on the DDO, but you still have to have the original DDO, to even have the DDO
Designated 1-O-II-C+IV+VIII in the Coneca master listing and reported by Wexler. Also this: "Strength of doubling will vary depending upon hub and die state"
Well, I need to improve my photography if you can't see the doubling at the bottom edge of the horizontal bars of E in LIBERTY, the notching at bottoms of R & T and the listed die markers present. I could only provide photos of the page it is listed in the book, and a link to the Master Listing but I can't make anyone use them.
I'm also talking about the complete lack of info on that site. No die markers listed, no mention of the *3* different reverse dies used...... there are better references out there than those. Don't get me wrong; they are good. But they are not complete and need to be updated. Glad that job doesn't fall to me; what a huge undertaking! I digress.
Silentnviolent, the coin you have pictured is not the coin in your book. If you will read what you have underlined it states, "several parallel die scratches ENE (east northeast) from the upper right T of CENT." The pic of your coin shows 1 scratch in the northwest direction, through the T in CENT. The reverse pic from coppercoins, that Rick put up, shows these parallel die scratches exactly as underlined in the book. It is an easy mistake. I have been guilty of it many times. Another reason it can't be it is the mint mark location. Your D appears a good deal closer to the date than the one in the book. I agree that it is MD. Also, your coin would have to be an earlier die state obverse than the one on coppercoins. Notice the die chip in the B of LIBERTY. Good luck and keep searching.
I believe the error coin specialists went overboard by listing so many minor doubled die coins as doubled dies. when we need a die marker to identify a coin as a doubled die we probably would need a 30X loupe to see the doubled part. then on the other hand this gives the coin roll searchers another one to try to find.
These images are copyrighted, Rick. better get rid of em and save CT a headache. @jay4202472000 and @non_cents thanks guys for your input. I appreciate it, and value it.
Ok guys... I'm lining up for another swing at this one. Here goes: Clicking on the images should give ample zoom to check diagnostics. I found another one with the die chip in B of LIBERTY, but my camera battery is depleted for now. @non_cents @jay4202472000
Here's where the problem comes in. You can't use die markers, in reverse, so to speak. Die markers are used after you identify a die variety. Die markers are described as general terms. For example, the die chips in the word LIBERTY can be used a thousand times on a thousand different coins because die chips were incredibly common in the late fifties and into the early 60s. Things like die polish lines used as a description of something that can be used as a die marker can be found on millions of coins. A die chip or other things described as die markers can be found on almost every coin but it doesn't prove anything except when the die marker is specific and exactly duplicated on every example of every coin of a particular die variety. Die polish lines cant just be going in a similar direction, for example. The die polish lines have to be microscopically identical to the polish lines on a die variety that you are trying to identify. What I am suggesting is that you don't look for common die chips or die polish lines to pronounce a coin a doubled die before you see die doubling on the coin, but you use die markers to prove that a coin is a doubled die after you are satisfied that there is the right doubling on the coin to begin with. I've seen collections of coins that have been put together where the person said things like. Well these coins have the die markers that were described. They mentioned things things like a die gouge or a die chip. Well the coins did have some things visible like gouges or chips or die polish lines but they were not the right and very specific ones.
This is a die marker of the 1972 DDO-Die#1 Lincoln cent. This should be on the reverse. This is evidence of a die gouge above the D of UNITED. Other 1972 DDO Die#1 cents will have this and it will be identical.
lets go one farther, most coins sooner or later will start staging, the more the die wears, that when the staging starts, I would be careful with what you think isn't, at least for new coins, their just being found, also like the 1972 lincoln cent DDO-004, back in the 70s and 80s this ddo were thought to be MD, ops, they most of made a big mistake, but now its the highest paid for all the 1972 ddos
