Here's an error for ya!!

On the obverse, the fields created by the supposed "second strike" under and behind the Indian's head are flat. That means that there should have been enough pressure to completely flatten the remnants of the "first strike" of the Indian's head, yet there is a ridge that is too high that remains of the supposed "first strike" above the head of the "second strike"...Again, an impossibility on a genuine double strike. The coin just screams fake from all perspectives. Not to mention the fact that the E PLURIBUS UNUM lettering looks fake, as a stand alone diagnostic.

Finally, the similarities between the OPs coin and the coin that I pictured are close enough despite the wear on coin two to indicate that if the two coins were not struck from the same bogus die, that the coins were made by the same counterfeiter.

 

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I agree with founiinrolls that this coin does look suspicious . I noticed this right off but never said anything. this is what I have been saying all along , when too much details of the first strike still remains out in the field of a doublestruck coin stay away from it. a couple days ago I saw a what looked like fake doublestruck state quarter coin in a slab on ebay and it was up to over 400 dollars the last time I looked. this one also had what looked to be a indent of another coin on it. the fake doublestruck coins usually sells for more than a real one because sometimes they show more details of the first strike. like on this buffalo nickle it has three hind legs visible. I believe on a real one only two hind legs should be there.

 

That ridge you speak of is actually the second strike.
If the OP would show the whole slab I think you would see his obverse pic is out of rotation with respect to his reverse pic. In other words, his obverse pic is oriented to the first strike and his reverse pic is oriented to the second strike.

 

sometimes when it comes to coins where someone makes dies to imitate a doublestruck coin it is impossible to say for sure which is the first strike or the second strike. this is because there is only one strike involved to complete the faked coin , the design for this is already on the homemade dies.
I agree with foundinrolls that the coin in this thread just screams fake. maybe i'm wrong but this is the way it looks to me. where is the date for it ? if the coin has to show two strikes where the heck is the other nose and mouth of the Indian ? I'm wondering if that is mold residue along the edges of the design on the obverse.

 

That is one cool looking coin--hands down---

 

When looking at a genuine double (multiple) struck coin, the apparent stronger strike is the latest strike in the series of multiple strikes. The later strike(s) obliterate much of the detail of the earlier strike(s). So the ridge is a remnant of the supposed earlier strike.

In this case, the coin was made with a die that was doctored to look like both strikes but only one impression into the planchet was made. It was one strike of a bogus die that was created to look like the coin was struck twice.

That's why I used quotations and such around some of the words in my posts. This coin was never double struck as in reality it was struck once by a pair of bogus dies.

 

Here's another example from Heritage that is similar to the OP's.http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1173&lotNo=4326 The full view of the slab shows the coin is oriented to the second strike in the slab. The rotation between strikes on both coins is close. A lot of the details of the Indians face from the first strike remain as in the OP's coin. Due to the design of the coin much of the Indians face that, even when rotated, remains inside the recess of the die that is the bust and there's no metal left to fully strike up. What did get wiped out from the first strike is the braid of hair. The partial braid that's there on the OP's coin is from the second strike. It doesn't line up with the face.
You may be right that's it's a fake. I'm just putting in my two cents in what I see. Kudos to the counterfeiter however, his die making ability is scary good.

 

isnt that a die crack ....??

wow thats like something that you dont see everyday tho ...

thxs for sharing ...

 

so is that a 1913 P Var 1????

 

One final observation and then I'm done with this fake The one on Heritage's website that was linked to above is of the same date and is exactly the same as the one I pictured. Both are dated 1924. One is in a slab and one is worn and has a huge scratch across the face. That means that one die struck both of the 1924 coins as well as having the date removed to strike the one that the OP posted.

That means that there are three essentially identical "errors" and anyone who knows about double struck coins knows that this is impossible.

 

I'm thinking the OP coin is real.

 

Neat coin. How much is it worth?

 

I sure don't know where in the heck you get your information on this coin being a fake!! Are you serious?? Your a funny guy!!

 

One final observation and then I'm done with this fake The one on Heritage's website that was linked to above is of the same date and is exactly the same as the one I pictured. Both are dated 1924. One is in a slab and one is worn and has a huge scratch across the face. That means that one die struck both of the 1924 coins as well as having the date removed to strike the one that the OP posted.

That means that there are three essentially identical "errors" and anyone who knows about double struck coins knows that this is impossible.




Now what Mr. expert??????

 

Please tell us some more!! You sure do NOT know what the heck your talking about now do ya!! If ya don't know what your talking about you should just keep your comments to yourself. I take offence to your spewing this garbage about my REAL double struck buff. If ya know how, look up the slab # maybe this will prove your wrong. Not sure what it'll take at this point. What are ya gonna say now, pcgs got it wrong? I guess that's all that's left to say, eh?

 

Yes it is. Not dated but it's easy to see it is a 1913 type 1......DEX

 

That means that there are three essentially identical "errors" and anyone who knows about double struck coins knows that this is impossible.

YOU don't know about double struck coins pal!!!

 

Your killing me LOL...Run forest , run!!!

 

Hi Dexter , just because a coin is in a pcgs slab doesn't make it a real mint error. I don't have a clue as to who FOUNDINROLLS is but he or she appears to know quite a bit about error coins. all anyone has to do to get a TPG company to slab a mint error as a real mint error is to get a error expert to say it is real. all error experts are human like the rest of us and they make mistakes once in a while. I agree with what FOUNDINROLLS said because there is too much of both strikes showing and no date on the coin at all , plus two more have been found with very close to the same amount of rotation between strikes with both strikes showing like your coin is. your coin may have possibly been made this way at the mint but I just don't see how it happened at the mint.

even our modern coins are being altered to look as double struck coins by folks using homemade dies. the problem the counterfeiters had with these was that they showed too much details of the different strikes and looked more like a doubled die than a doublestrike. these were being sold on ebay until ebay stopped them. I had one of these state quarters that had four perfect looking IN COLLAR STRIKES and later learned it was made with fake dies. counterfeiters love to fool the coin experts , this is their main goal in life.

 

While I am leaning more towards the genuine side of the coin in question now, the way you responded to the posts of FOUNDINROLLS (who is very well-educated in varieties and errors) was not really neccessary.