ICG Grading

Sigh. Here we go again! NOBODY is telling a potential coin buyer NOT to buy a coin that they find attractive. NOBODY is telling the potential buyer TO IGNORE eye appeal. All that is being said is that if you can get BOTH the nicest looking coin and one appropriately graded in a PCGS or NGC slab, it tends to make for a better investment in the current coin marketplace. I have often bought raw, PCGS, NGC ICG, and basement slabs, depending on whether or not the coin APPEALS TO ME. On the other hand, there is generally a lot of competition for purchase of most coin dates as raw, slabbed, or coins in slabs as candidates for resubmission. ALL THINGS BEING equal, if you can find the best looking coin that is already in a top TPG slab, with a grade that you believe to be appropriate, for a good price, it is a win/win situation.

 

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you can say it all you want. I can say it all I want its going to make no difference. in this day and age we have people who think they are something because they own a coin.

 

Is that a directed comment?

 

Dang! I finally got a few decent coins besides my prior hoarding habit and now I feel like a nobody again

 

if I wanted to say something to you morgandude I would do so. this comment was made to GD. We have a conversation going for many years now and hopefully it will continue for a few more years at least

 

don't let any coin make you feel bad about yourself ever

 

Gotcha. Same here--Doug and I have been debating the TPG issues for a long time. You and I are cool!

 

Ok, all jokes aside

It seems there is a disagreement on the value of TPG slabs. I can understand the argument. However, when one points out that dealers do it because they know they will be easier to sell, would that not apply to anyone? If one is knowledgeable, gets a coin they are happy with, AND in a slab will they not also gain the same ability to more easily resell if needed?

Also, it is true there are many unknowledgable collectors out there, myself being one of them. Not that I will "chase plastic", but as I learn and become more comfortable with my skills something with "PCGS" on it isn't just plastic, it's insurance! It may be somewhat over, or under, graded but I can have a little confidence it's at least close. AND I can have a little confidence I can also likely re-sell without running into a HUGE "OOPS, that was nowhere near as valuable as I thought". To me, that is a real value.

I get the point though, on "Buy the coin, not the plastic", but when arguing on WHY a dealer may do it it only proves there really IS some value in that plastic.

 

Yes - it is true for someone reselling also. Yes - with PCGS and NGC I think you can reasonably assume it is close. The key will be identifying the choice coins for the grade - not all 64's are equal. Which is the point of buy the coin not the plastic. Personally I think the plastic from NGC/PCGS is a good guarantee it is genuine. Sometimes even knowledgeable dealers make a mistake on that. To me the best thing you can do is look at lots of coins while learning to grade. Learn the series you are looking for - then you can identify some of the choice coins for the grade.

Everyone has their own opinion on who is best and who they like. I prefer PCGS over NGC, but that does not mean I pass up all NGC coins. I mainly look at ICG, ANACS, PCGS and NGC. If I saw the right coin in an ANACS or ICG holder I would still buy it. I might even cross it over. Heck even my father found some bottom feeder tpg coins and crossed them to PCGS. Make a little money, but nothing huge.

 

True, the coin is no different But the value of the entire purchase is. As you stated, they are easier to move, and being more liquid has value. If it's easier to sell, or easier to sell at a desired price, OR may sell at a premium because so many view the grading as carrying a premium then it has value.

I guess, as an analogy I'm trying to make, I have Title Insurance on my home. It added no value to the home, yet it has value in itself. Someone paying cash, and knowledgeable, could do their own title search and pass on that, yet how many people do?

Other than, once I feel confident I'll be looking at raw coins myself and save the premium.

It seems to amount to a difference of liquidity, as well as insurance, yet both of those things have value.

 

Oh, I was only referring to the morgandude and GDJMSP exchange. I can't grade anything to the point I'd trust myself, so I'd certainly not try to have anything regraded anytime in the near future, other than some knowledge on if it's worth it, or not.

 

This is simply not true as far as things go, liquidity always affects the market price of assets. As long as the market for slabbed coins is more liquid than raw coins, coins in slabs will have a higher value.

Interestingly I think you see this with high end coins, at least I do with high end large cents. The coins are not liquid, and slabbing them does not make them any more liquid as there is a very limited number of people who will drop 10K on a coin. Most people buying these coins are either very knowledgeable or use the services of someone who is knowledgeable to aid purchase decisions.

 

I agree with you there, 100%. The value of the coin hasn't changed. However, morgandude also had good points, and I think from just a general perspective there is value in a slab. The coin hasn't changed, but if it has value to any possible buyer then it's value. If it can act as a sort of insurance, then it's value. If it increases liquidity, then it's value.

It may not always be a "good" value of course I built my approaching retirement by investing in stocks. Just an amateur there as well, but I spend hours and days pouring over financial reports to find undervalued gems. It has paid off over the years. Yet, all else being equal, there's a big difference between a rarely traded stock, and one with high daily volume. The bid/ask spread is huge on low volume stocks. The added liquidity, to get out when I want to, is value.

I'm likely over-thinking this Otherwise, I do get your point, and agree, the coin has not changed. I also agree with morgandude, if it's the SAME coin, it has added value if slabbed even if it's only a matter of a faster sale. I also DO enjoy the conversation and learning while I digest all of this!! Thanks!

 

Just because someone has stated their price guide is for raw and slabbed coins does not make it so. I am not trying to argue symantics here although at some level I see I am.

Let's take the intrinsic metal value out for a second. The value of a coin is determined by the supply and demand for a given coin. If there is more demand in the market for slabbed coins, then the price for that coin will be higher, and in this case price = value.

I tend to think the preference for slabbed coins is strange and I do not have that preference, but the market in general does. Look at ancients as an example of this, there is little demand for slabbed coins in this area of collecting and you also see little difference in price for slabbed versus raw.

 

What determines a coin's dollar value? Once you get past it's metal content doesn't the price depend on supply and demand?

 

I will let others try to explain everything that goes into determining a price on the coin - well besides grade, eye appeal, etc. Yes to supply and demand. Some coins are rare with a low demand and have reasonable prices. Some coins are not so rare and have a high demand with high price(thinking 1909svdb - seems like every dealer always has one for sale so plenty are available).

 

Right, and if collectors have a stronger demand for slabbed coins than for raw coins, even if it's irrational, that will lead to the same coin in a slab selling for more than it would raw.