Coin Storage

I know we've talked about it before, but here's my stash--in waterproof plastic tubs, behind a reinforced steel closet door, with an alarm contact for the house alarm. These are the ones that I don't have in a safe deposit box, or are not in Dansco albums on my bookshelves.

 

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Well, Morgandude, you certainly have your act together. I always say I'm going to get organized some day, but that probably won't happen at my age. Of course, most of my stuff is low end junk, so it doesn't matter as much. Anyway, you have excellent storage methods (and some great looking coins). Here's my discombobulated collection:

 

Slabs are 100% airtight, right? Is it safe to have your slabbed coins in that cardboard box? Doesn't it put out chemicals as the cardboard degrades?

 

No, slabs are not airtight. They are just holders. The cardboard does put out chemicals, and the chemicals can cause toning.

 

That is a pretty impressive way of storing coins.

 

jloring, I'll be sure to not let my wife see that picture or she will get much more concerned about my new interest, lol.

 

i keep mine in a safe, with a Tarnish Trap...none of my coins or bars have tarnished...and none have toned.

there is a difference between tarnish and toning. most people interchange the two...incorrectly. toning is a thin layer of oxidation, if it is thin, it is yellowish/orangey. if it is thick, it is bluish/purple. tarnishing is caused by sulfur. i dont mind if my coins tone, as it is completely unavoidable over time, ALL things oxidize. but tarnish looks bad to me.

i have had a tarnish trap for 2 years now and my coins all look like the day i get them. some are slabbed, some are in airtights, some in mint packaging. none have tarnished though. the Tranish Trap acts as a desiccant too. i used to keep a few packets of silica beads i my safe but they clump up and dont last.

 

Toning and tarnish are actually caused by the same thing....exposure to harmful gases. There is no difference. The only difference is the definition that collectors assign to them. Toning may look attractive but tarnish has negative implications. Either way they are one in the same. Also, toning/tarnish will continue to damage the surface of coin unless properly protected.

Yes, cardboard will emit sulfur over time (same issue as paper deterioration, which is why CGC places sheets inside graded comics to neutralize gases)...which is bad for coins. Also, both PCGS and NGC slabs are not air-tight.

 

It is not just the sulfur that can cause problems for coins. The amount of Lignin and the pH of the paper ( especially with moisture) can cause reactions with the coin metal. Maybe this will help.

http://www.theassayoffice.co.uk/meet_the_experts/tarnish_labexpert.html

 

umm, no. that would be incorrect.

toning is a result of oxidation. many chemicals can cause oxidation at different rates. the rainbow effect is the differing thickness of the oxidation which reflects/refracts light in the visible light spectrum. nothing can prevent oxidation as it can even be caused by LIGHT reacting with surface molecules. i doubt your coin armour has the ability to deflect all forms of electromagnetic radiation....correct? if it does, you should be in the radiation field. plastic lined with metal on the thickness that your bags are simply cannot do this.

tarnish is from sulfur. period. if you are argue this it just proves how little understanding of chemistry you have and how likely it is you are selling expensive ziplock bags. tarnish is defined as SILVER SULFIDE.

tarnish is gray/black. it is silver and sulfur (well hydrogen sulfide to be exact).

toning is SILVER OXIDE. as in, oxygen that has been pulled off of other chemicals that it bonds stronger to the silver molecules.

i would hope that you did not put too much time or money into this as from a MATERIALS ENGINEERING GRADUATE standpoint, you do not seem to understand the very basic chemical properties relevant to your product and it's abilities. if your plastic bags are lined with a nano to micro layer of a metal, i am assuming copper, literally opening the bag the first time and introducing the ambient air around all of us would react off all of the free radicals on it's surface. you would have to insert the coins into it in a vacuum....and could never open them again. your product appears to be the same thing as a thermal blanket (plastic with a nano coating of aluminum) only with...copper?

bottom line, if you put a coin in your product, and in a ziplock, barring that the ziplock doesnt have PVC, there would literally be NO difference. i am not trying to be mean, rude, etc. it is just chemistry sir.

 

also, the air that is allowed into the bag EVERY TIME IT IS OPENED is not "intercepted". you are locking the air in with it. its not a sponge. it is a barrier at best. and only on one side of the bag as one side is clear!

Chris I would be very careful marketing this product. you are opening yourself up to a lawsuit when someone puts a expensive coin into it and it tones OR tarnishes and comes looking for the manufacturer to sue.

i have to reiterate the fact that you do not understand what actually causes oxidation and tarnishing. "intercepts harmful gases" is a blanket term. your shirt absorbs harmful gases. your hair absorbs harmful gases. are these coin storage products???

if you expose UV light to silver, iron, ANY metal except gold pretty much (and even gold in high enough intensities usually not found in nature) it will oxidize (barring a vacuum environment). meaning, it will tone.

be careful bud. not trying to knock you or your product. its a good idea, it just doesn't work the way you think it does.

 

this was really bothering me because i have an extensive materials background.

if you go onto liberty packaging's website, the company you bought the material from and had cut into small coin sized bags, you will see that it is a BARRIER, and that it DOES NOT ABSORB ANYTHING....AT ALL. so every single time (including the first time you put a coin in it) you are actually TRAPPING compounds in with it.

watch the video on their website. it is a very laymans explanation, but even in the video it clearly states that it does not do what you are claiming it does. it cannot absorb anything INSIDE the bag. now, if you somehow opened the bag in a completely sterile environment, inserted the coins in, and sealed it, it would work, but considering most of us do not have access to a vacuum chamber, it is useless.

sorry man.

 

Thanks rysherms, but I really don't have a clue what you are trying to say in your ramblings....maybe you should ask for a refund for your college degree. I also guess that the scientists for Lucent Technologies, Bell Labs, that created Intercept got it all wrong, for the past 30 years, and I guess you know more than them. As well as all the companies that use Intercept on a daily basis for commercial/industrial reasons.

I guess these folks got it all wrong as well:

http://www.intercept-technology.com/index.php?id=1


I also guess all this research is incorrect, but who am I to say:

http://coinarmour.com/Research_Contact_Us.html

Mylar is a barrier as you suggested, Intercept is not. Intercept is a reactive barrier. Neutralize is defined to mean remove not repel, and the Intercept lining has two sides. So if gases are inside the bag, Intercept will neutralize the gases...just like a brand new shiny copper penny. Have a nice day

 

So what do you call a coin that tones over many years to the point that it is really dark? Is it no longer toned? At what point do you call it tarnished?
Right or wrong, I'm thinking most just call it toning.

 

Chris, it is a little scary to think that you take what I said as rambling. Unfortunately you based your product on a property of this metal infused polymer that just isn't so. THE MANUFACTURER EVEN STATES IT IS SIMPLY A BARRIER NOT AN ABSORBTIVE. If you had any understanding of chemistry AT ALL you would realize a few basic principles that completely make your claims IMPOSSIBLE. A metallic layer a few microns thick means that there are only "x" molecules to start with. Being that "x" is a very small number, it means that it can only act as a BARRIER and not an absorbtive.

It appears you are peddling a product with absolutely no understanding of what it is. Go back and read what the product does. Do a little research. I'm sure a few people bought into the credibility pf Bell Labs and all, and you made a few bucks, but this forum contains a higher ratio of intelligent members and unfortunately for you, ones that understand your product better. You may be able to trick some uneducated folk into telling them this product is capable of one thing and it IS NOT....but try addressing the real issue here.

You don't even know the basic principles of tarnishing vs toning. THIS IS WHAT I DID FOR A LIVING. I challenge you to answer this one simple question to prove you are selling snake oil...just describe to us the principle that shows the difference between orange and purple toning. As a hint, I explained it before in my ramblings but didn't state the one fundamental difference... I guarantee you cannot sir.

Find a different audience to sell false hopes to. Not on this forum. I like too many of the people here to let you steal from them.

 

FWIW I personally found intercept shield of great value. Unfortunately they are not 100%. they are completely useless for pure gold (read first spouse) work great for 90% silver. mixed results for brass. All said and done i am a happy customer.

I hope someone does make another round of products like intercept.

 

Yeah, I know Doug. I moved about 6 weeks ago, from a condo into a house. Still have some of the packing materials in the tubs that I used to transport the coins to my new location. I certainly DO NOT believe in accelerating toning--as you know, I like naturally toned coins (which are NOT tarnished, for the benefit of some other alleged non-lovers of toned coins). To get into the debate of tone vs tarnished, virtually ALL of the silver coins of that era (1800s) were at one time "toned" as Silver reacts with the atmosphere. Pure white coins have been dipped.

 

i have already invested a significantly longer amount of time into this than i wanted to. arguing that toning and tarnishing are the same thing is like a creationists arguing that the world is 6000 years old, i mean, who cares about all of that nonsense carbon dating and red/blue shift in starlight we see that proves a universe age of 14+ billion years. tell yourself whatever fairytale you need to in order to sleep at night. i have had a few people PM asking for a more scientific explanation of why this CoinArmour is a scam, and I have happily sent them a very detailed explanation of why this product CANNOT work as Chris claims it does. I do not want to publicly humiliate him any further but at the same time I cannot sit by and watch people get scammed into buying a product claiming to do something that it physically cannot. If you want to know why this product cannot absorb "dangerous gases" and at best, blocks some of them MARGINALLY better than a ziplock bag, PM me, I have a pretyped template I just send to members who are concerned about their purchase of Coin Armour.