Chinese: A few Cash arrived today

Every time I buy Chinese cash I ask myself why I feel I need more since I hardly understand anything about the specialize hobby that collecting them entails. The coins I selected are all common and relatively cheap. This time I avoided the Northern Song dynasty since those coins made up a large percentage of what I had before. I am unclear on what Chinese Cash collectors look for in terms of condition and how much things that really matter to ancient collectors (like surface and freedom from scratches) mean in this ballpark.

Here are a few from the group. Oldest is a Wang Mang from the first part of his reign 7-14AD - Da Quan Wu Shi (great 50 coin). Wang Mang issues many different kinds of coins which, I understand, confused the spending public.


The Southern Song Shao Xi yuan bao attracted my attention because it is year dated (year 3 on the reverse) to 1192. Third is a coin of Ming Dynasty, the Yong Le Emperor famous for building the Forbidden City. Most of his reign saw paper money used instead of coins but he did issue these c.1408-1410. This one has two nail marks on the reverse which seems to be noted when Chinese coins are sold but my level of expertise does not include understanding why I should care. Help, anyone? Next is a coin of the rebel Wu Sangui with period name Li Yong. It was selected because of the reverse character stating the value as one Li. The coin is clearly legible but has scratches that would really degrade the value to collectors of Greek or Roman coins. How much difference does it make here? Last is the cheapest coin of the lot at $.80. Inscribed Quan Long tong bao it is also the newest 1736-1795 making it one of the newest coins in my collection. The reverse has Manchu characters identifying it as from the Board of Revenue and Zhili mint. Anyone reading this far probably has some interest in Chinese cash (but might be laughing at these common ones) and is invited to post a lesson on what I should know before giving in to the urge to add more. My only selection factor was being able to see the characters well enough that they could be found in the Hartill book Cast Chinese Coins. These were all in a collection previously and came with ID's as presented but using a different transliteration system than that of Hartill whose book I have decided to use to organize my coins (owning it is the big factor here). Who here collects cash?

 

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I personally like all of them, just imagine how they were used a long, long time ago!

 

I with you on Chinese coins. I don't understand them at all so I just stay away. I presume these that you have here are all fine specimens. I wouldn't even know where to go to find ID's.

 

these are very cool. are they cast coins ?

 

While not an expert by any means, I'll be happy to provide a few pointers.

These are not actually "nail marks" such as you would see on the Tang Dynasty kai yuan tong bao coins. The nail marks on the kai yuan tong bao coins were intentionally made.

The marks on your coin were probably made as the mother coin was being removed from the sand mould and the rim accidentally touched the sand. Most marks of this type will have the same arc as the rim of the coin although sometimes it appears straighter depending on the position of the coin when it accidentally touched the sand. When the molten bronze filled the mould, it also filled this little depression in the sand which left this raised mark on your coin.

I do not feel these marks detract from the coin. Some collectors even specialize in collecting coins with "stars", "moons", "nail marks", etc.

Authentic li yong tong bao coins should have these "scratches". These "scratches" are from the final filing of the coin to remove any excess metal left over from the casting process. This is a particular characteristic of the li yong tong bao coins as can be seen in this example.

Just a minor point. The transliteration should be qian long tong bao.
Quan is a different character such as the second character in the inscription of your first coin (da quan wu shi).

All of the above coins are actually very nice specimens.

Gary

 

Thank you very much!

Spirityoda: Yes, they are cast.

 

those are all nice DS, the "dated" coin is great...i had no idea any of these were dated.

here's 3 i picked up recently..2 n song and 1 tang...





my kai yuan tong bao (far right) has a "moon" at 12 o'clock on the reverse, kind of hard to see. i was told the moon represents a nail mark placed my an empress on the molds..is that true manymore?

 

I discuss the "origin" of the "moons" on kai yuan tong bao coins here.

Gary

 

20 cash ??? early 20th century

 

Another cash question that confuses me: These two coins both appear to match Hartill 18.40 on the obverse (Zheng Long, 1158-61 AD) but the upper coin is missing the reverse rims. The upper coin weighs 2.49g which seems about what would remain from the 3.71g lower coin if you filed off the reverse. I do not see file marks and the crusty patch suggests that the filing was done long ago if this is the situation. (Does anyone who like to find shapes in clouds see a giraffe standing on his hind legs here?) Hartill mentions that copper was in short supply when these were new so scavenging copper from coins would seem consistent. What am I missing about these coins?

 

I have never seen missing reverse rims. I definitely say it was done post mint.

As to the other issues, I agree with Manymore's comments.

 

I have 2 I have a modern charm that was given to me when I was a small child, and a Northern Song given to me by Chrsmat. Unfortunately I have nothing to add but I must say I read whenever someone posts one of these. Maybe someday I can bring myself to collect these. The price seems right.

How do we know what is really authentic and what is a forgery, whether ancient or modern? If they are cast wouldn't it be really easy to pass off fakes? I am afraid....

 

Btw Doug, regarding your inquiry if any of us collect Chinese Cash, I do. I have 4-5 thousand of them, from the earliest Yi-tao through all issuing kingdoms mainly up to Pu Yi. I do not have anywhere close to all coins of course, but have a "complete" one cash Northern Sung collection, extensive pan liang holdings, etc. I also have quite a few early knives and spades. I find myself also attracted to cash influenced coins, from Sogdia to Korea and Japan to Malaysia. Chinese cash were one of the most influential coins in human history.

I haven't actively collected them much for a few years though, save for imitative issues like Sogdian types.

 

Shhhh...

Keep spilling the beans about these, and I won't be able to afford them...

 

I am still trying to get a good Kai Yung Tong Bao type. I keep coming up too cheap to get one of these.

 

I SEE THE GIRAFFE! I SEE THE GIRAFFE!

my collection is almost exactly 1/1,oooth the size of meds....but they are interesing, i'll get more i'm sure.

 

Lol, is this Doug's Rorshack test? Personally I see the giraffe, but also see a person sitting just to the right of the square hole.

 

At first I had no idea what y'all were talking about.

Now I see it. Hahaha.

 

Huh? => hey, I'm trying, but for reason I just can't seem to get on-board with these Chinese coins .......... sadly, I can't "SEE THE GIRAFFE" ... *sigh*

=> but please keep posting 'em, for I'm sure that at some point I'll come around and warm-up to these washer-like coins ... who knows, maybe one day I'll eventually be known as that Chinese-coin guy, "Emperor Wang Mang"??!!

 

The head is above the hole.