There's a coin listed on eBay right now described as a Tiberius Tribute Penny. Any truth to the legend posted by the seller of this coin? A GENUINE ROMAN SILVER DENARIUS COIN FROM THE REIGN OF THE EMPEROR TIBERIUS WHO REIGNED AD 4 - 37.IT IS THE FAMOUS "TRIBUTE PENNY" OF THE BIBLE.Jesus, referring to a "penny" asked, "Whose is this image and superscription?" When told it was Caesar, He said, ''Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's and unto God the things that are God's" (Matthew 22:20-21). Since Tiberius was Caesar at the time, this denarius type is attributed by scholars as the "penny" referred to in the Bible Do these carry a significant premium? Judging from the bidding war raging over this coin, my guess is yes. He's got at least one bidder's attention. Here's a link to the listing: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161045378473?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Looks like a great portrait.
I didn't see this thread before I posted. http://www.cointalk.com/t228917/ Did not intend to post an 'almost duplicate thread' For what it's worth Nathan, I like your coin better than the one offered on eBay.
Theyre not worth their asking. The story is also ??? mainly cause it could be talking about coins from Augustus or something else. We may never know. Dont be shy to look at Tiberius bronzes, some are pretty neat, very rare and can be bought for half of what a decent tribute penny goes for. Plus tribute pennies are often faked, some very well. Theyre as faked as athens owl coins.
I will never forget seeing (years ago) a bag containing at least 1000 Tribute Pennies owned by a wholesale dealer. All were half decent coins. The reason for the TP tag being on this coin is that Tiberius made fewer different types of denarii than any other ruler so the denarii made for the two decades before the Bible story date would have been mostly this type. Certainly many coins older than 20 years would still be in circulation and the story works equally well for a coin of Caesar Augustus or Julius Caesar or any Roman head (all Romans looked alike to non-Romans???). The fact remains that there are a million Christians who are hopeful that the TP in their collection is the one mentioned in the story - not the type but the actual coin. Thousand's of Christian pastors own a TP and a pair of 'Widow's Mites'. (Few have 30 pieces of silver since that is a real chunk of change.) Prices are set by demand and there is more demand for the million TP's in existence than a rare denarius of many rulers. You have to decide which you will buy with your money. I agree, Tiberius bronzes are better for the money but I do own both.
Plain chair legs, fancy chair legs, fourree (but nice style), Indian copy Tribute Pennies were the last common denarii made with good silver. I believe that so many were made that Caligula and Claudius did not need to strike as many denarii contributing to the scarcity of those coins today.
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=644579 Check this one: Nice style, nice condition and estimated by a good seller at 400 Euros. Realized 3500 Euros. Really? It is a very nice coin.
This observation is also true, to a great extent, for Vespasian's Judaea Capta coins, especially the sestertii. While these coins are not particularly common, they're not rare either. Because they're actively and aggressively sought by Jewish collectors, the law of supply and demand drives up the price, even for coins that normally wouldn't be avidly sought by collectors. Here's a good example: This coin is generally agreed to be heavily tooled -- my dealer and others are all of that opinion. Yet at an auction last year it sold for over $90,000 not including the 15% buyers fee! Had it not been tooled, it might have fetched $200K+ given the condition and sharpness of the devices and legends. But despite the heavy tooling, there were enough buyers to drive the price to a level that just doesn't make sense for a heavily tooled coin. Many of Tiberius' coins are, let's face it, pretty dull in style and execution. The "tribute penny" is no exception to this, but its place in history pretty much guarantees that the demand will always exceed the supply, with the predictable impact on the coin's price.
Above is nothing but fact. Tiberius is the worst of the 12 Caesars and the 12 as a whole are more beneficiaries of historical hysteria than anyone. Many later emperors have many more interesting types. I do agree that the best of the 12 (Galba and Vespasian) have some great sestertii portraits but each ruler is lucky to have a handful of types better than some standing figure. Had Suetonius not written his book, I'd expect prices on the twelve would be half or less of current levels. There is a text of an early Christian writer that could have blown this whole deal. In the Gospel of Thomas (a book that did not make the cut when the early fathers selected what was included in the Bible) we read: (100) They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "Caesar's men demand taxes from us." He said to them, "Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine." If the mainstream Gospels had told the story using an aureus rather than a denarius, I wonder what would be the effect on the price of all these boring denarii.
Since were on the subject of my favorite book's. In Matthew 17:24-27, the tax collectors asked if Jesus and his disciples were going to pay there poll tax.(two drachma tax). Jesus asked peter if son's or strangers should pay the tax, consequently the son's are exempt, verse 27, but lest we give offence, peter go to the sea, throw in a hook and take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a stater.(1 shekel or 4 drachmas).Take and give to them for you and me.( Jesus and peter or Simon). Are all staters Gold and if its Gold what coin at that time would it be, please post a pic..if its silver, what coin would it be..
Here's some info from wikipedia, Athen's Stater, Tetradrachm ( 4-drachmas) so there's Gold and silver stater's.. Maybe this was the coin..:smile
The same Tyre Shekel that is credited with being Judas' 30 pieces of silver gets this duty also. The tax was the smaller (half shekel) of two denominations but we find more of the larger ones so Jesus was taking care of two tax bills with the single larger coin. Today we see more of the large silver coins which are more popular since most people equate them with the Judas story and this tax story as well as their being larger and prettier. Eng's Athenian coin is 400 years older than the story so it is unlikely that these were major currency in 30 AD. Remember that the tax had to be paid in coin acceptable to the temple staff so there were always convenient money changers available to convert whatever you had into good coin for a fee. That links the story of Jesus overturning the tables of the moneychangers to this coin as well. They are large, good silver and can be quite expensive in good condition. I do not have one. http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?search=similar%3A651441#0 Halves are harder to find but less popular so it works out well. http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=618507 Stater is a term that is applied to any standard coin denomination. Some staters are 2 silver drachms, some three. A similar sized gold coin can be called a gold stater. The best translation is probably just 'coin'.
Shekels? Top to Bottom Melkart Series Tyre Shekel Tyche Series Sidon Shekel Seleucid Kingdom Tyre shekel Demetrios II Nikator. one of them has got to be it.
Certainly there is always room for discussion as to what coin is truly the 'one' but the standard tax coin is usually the Melkart, Tyre model. Whether you are a Christian believer and accept the literal necessity of the Bible description being accurate in every respect or if you realize that the Gospel writers had better things to worry about that details like the type of coin required for the story, you may allow different sets of possibilities. The identity of the Tribute Penny, for example, is not a matter of whether Jesus held that exact coin but that millions of readers of that story have accepted the traditional assignment and made a market demand based on that belief. Certainly it is possible that any of the mentioned coins or other large silvers might fill the bill. If you allow for the story being allegorical rather than absolutely literal, there may not have been a specific coin in your belief. It makes no matter what coin did or did not serve a role in the Bible but only that modern collectors will have to pay more for certain types for reasons that you may or may not find reasonable.
I trust all realize that the tax some here are calling a poll tax was the then current form of the temple tax required in Exodus from a Jewish male over age 20 not some Roman levy. In the early days the half shekel requirement was a weight or value since coins had not been invented but by the time of Matthew the tax was paid in a specific coin known to be of good metal since trying to pay the Temple in bad coin would be a sin of considerable gravity. Those interested in this will find quite a bit on the matter online with searching but this link has a bit on the matter: https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archive/1984/09/the-money-of-the-jewish-temple Exodus 30: 11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “When you take a census of the Israelites to count them, each one must pay the Lord a ransom for his life at the time he is counted. Then no plague will come on them when you number them. 13 Each one who crosses over to those already counted is to give a half shekel, according to the sanctuary shekel, which weighs twenty gerahs. This half shekel is an offering to the Lord. 14 All who cross over, those twenty years old or more, are to give an offering to the Lord. 15 The rich are not to give more than a half shekel and the poor are not to give less when you make the offering to the Lord to atone for your lives. 16 Receive the atonement money from the Israelites and use it for the service of the tent of meeting. It will be a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord, making atonement for your lives.”
