I just watched this video on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVf3i5xuJLQ Because of this new technology, has this caused fewer people to resubmit their coins in hope of receiving a better grade? Has it made it harder for people to resubmit their coin again and again to get the grade they want?
Its not necessarily to stop you from getting a higher grade. It seems more to stop people from artificially toning and doctoring coins. I think PCGS recognizes that the market is changing and evolving all the time and their standards from 20 years ago might not be the same today, and there is a very real possibility that you could wind up with a higher grade. I personally feel like they encourage re-submittals for the chance at a higher grade, but this feature seems to be a way to recognize if people are trying to deceive them and to keep tabs on the many coins that they process yearly. Essentially they are creating a coin database to protect us from even more fraud and i think thats commendable.
The thing you have to realize is that very, very, few coins are submitted under the Secure Plus grading tier. And only the coins that are submitted under the Secure Plus tier are scanned and added to the database. All other coins submitted under all other grading tiers are NOT scanned nor are they added to the database. And as said, even the Secure Plus grading tier does not prevent a coin from being upgraded, or downgraded, or even no graded, at any point in the future if the coin is resubmitted. The sole purpose of the scanning and database is to prevent coins from being doctored with methods like laser technology and putty and then resubmitted with the hope of a higher grade. So any impact that the Secure Plus tier may have is very, very, minimal.
In Doug's defense, Tim, I don't know of many who submit non-modern world coins to PCGS. Now that they're requiring them to be submitted under Secure Plus ($5-$8 more per tier?), I would assume people will simply opt to submit their world coins through NGC. It's entirely possible that the only Secure Plus graded coins are going to end up those that are under free submissions or submitted at the highest tiers, where you have no choice. Also, the market for US graded world coins isn't as great as the market for US coins, simply because US TPGs use more lenient grading standards than the home country that the coins originate from. Now, this doesn't mean to say LCS owners in the home country over-grade coins, merely that the actual standards for BU in the US would fall into AU+ for other countries.
And the Secure+ will only catch the resubmitted coin if it is resubmitted as secure+. If you alter it and resubmit under the regular tiers it doesn't get the scanning and the alteration could be missed.
So, keep sending it in under regular service until you get the grade you want, THEN send it in for Secure Plus, ending it's journey from an (hypothetical) undergraded MS63 to an MS65, just graded high enough to make a big difference in pricing, and making the submittor really happy.
But once you get the grade you want, and then send it in fir the Secure+, it may come back at a lower grade with the secure+ and some cash.
If it does that, you just tell PCGS that you want the cash out instead of the lower grade coin + cash. After all, aren't grade chasers doing it for the money, anyway?
But that isn't an option. You get the lower grade coin and whatever cash they determine they owe you. You don't have any say in the matter.
And even if you did have that option, THEY get to decide what the FMV was for the "higher grade coin" that you submitted, and they DON'T use their price guide to determine that. So they may just decide that the FMV of your downgraded coin is 63 money and that is what you get. The same money you would have gotten before you paid for the upgrade attempts. And the offer is a take it or leave it proposition.
But, if what Doug says is true, then coupled with the "cash out" money, you should be in the plus after playing the "upgrade game" on the coin. Also, on an aside, Doug, I thought that you always have a choice: Cash out Coin + difference Edit (per PCGS.com): If the grade determined under such "Guarantee Resubmission" procedures is lower than the grade originally assigned to the coin, or if the coin is found to be misattributed, non-authentic, PCGS shall pay the current market value for the coin in question at the originally assigned grade, or at the owner of the coin's option, the difference between the current market value for the coin in question at the newly established grade and the current market value of the coin in question at the grade originally assigned. PCGS will also refund the regrading fee and postage and insurance costs incurred by the coin owner in sending the coin to PCGS.
Not likely. The reason it is not likely is because PCGS and only PCGS determines what the value of the coin is. And their value is based on wholesale prices - what a dealer would pay for the coin. And since you paid retail for the coin and they pay you wholesale, you are almost always going to come out losing money on the deal. Fair enough, but that is not the situation we were talking about, or at least not the one I was talking about. You as the owner only have that option if and when you have resubmitted the coin under their Guarantee Resubmission tier. But you are right, you do have that option, but only under that grading tier. The situation we were discussing was submitting the coin under regular grading tiers, and then resubmitting the coin again under regular grading tiers, until you get the grade you wanted, and then resubmitting the coin under the Secure Plus tier, and then having the coin returned to you downgraded from what it was before. In that situation you get nothing from PCGS but the downgraded coin back. It is only after you get the downgraded coin back, and after you resubmit the coin yet again, but this time under the Guarantee Resubmission tier. Only then does their guarantee policy even apply. So you paid to have the coin graded once. Then you paid to have the coin graded again. If the coin comes back at the higher grade you wanted on the second time you're happy. So lets assume that happens - you have paid them twice now to grade the coin. Then you must pay them a third time, for the Secure Plus tier, which is even more expensive than it was the first 2 times. So now you have paid them 3 times to grade the same coin. But, and here's the important part - you submitted the coin under the Secure Plus tier, not under the Guarantee Resubmission tier, so no guarantee even applies. Under the Secure Plus tier they are not checking to see if the coin was previously over-graded. All they are going to do is crack the coin out of its previous slab at, lets say it was 64, pass it on the graders, raw, with the graders having no idea what it was previously graded, and ending with the graders assigning a 63 grade and putting the coin in the Secure Plus slab. That means you lose. You have now paid to have the coin graded 3 times, and ended up with the coin being back in a 63 slab which is where it was to begin with after you paid to have it graded the 1st time. And to be honest I don't even think you even could resubmit it now under the Guarantee Resubmission once that has happened because the Guarantee Resubmission only applies to the slab the coin is currently in.
I don't think that is right Doug. If you submit it in the PCGS slab for a regrade and it regrades at a lower level you are entitled to compensation under the grade guarantee, you don't have to resubmit it under the guarantee resubmission tier.
Could be Michael, but I thought the only time the coin was left in the slab so the graders could see it in the slab was when it was submitted under the guarantee tier. Coins in other TPG slabs are also left in the slab when they submitted under cross, but I thought those were the only two times the coin was ever left in the slab. But I'm certainly agreeable to being corrected.
When you send it in for a regrade they will crack it out before the graders see it, but at the end the new grade is compared to the original grade and if it is lower then the guarantee kicks in. At least that is the way I understand it.
