1970 and 1971 US proof sets with no "S"

Hmmmm.

A "non-Stamped" S coin would be a Philly Coin. No ifs, ands, or buts! Remember folks, all the coins are shipped to a central packager for assembly.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

OK, so if you ASSUME that there never was a non stamped S Cent in 1971, then this is an error in packaging the wrong coin in one slot. And probably not worth much of a premium for that packaging error. But how can we be certain of the origin of the unmarked cent next to the dime where the S marked coin usually resides? The possibility exists either way. What is your proof that there never was an non mint marked S coin in 1971? That is why they are called errors. This could be a rare coin. 1971-S had a DDO Cent. Lets have a good look at that coin!

 

1st 3 by dime and last 2 by kennedy

misc of both https://www.dropbox.com/s/e0r0yo1jbgsdda8/1971 11 Coin Mint Set No S on any Penny.pdf

 

Why does that look like a 4 in the forehead of the upside down one?

 

Can we be Certain?
I think so since the only instance, with the exception of the NO S MM Proofs, of where a branch mint produced a "No Mintmark" business strike coin was the 1922-D. Of course this was due to die abrasion and the general condition of the coin backs that up.

For 1971 though? I think not since the 1971 Lincoln had quite a few DDO coin (11 across all mints) and I expect that the coins were examined with some regularity. To even "entertain" the thought that the San Francisco mint produced coins with out mintmarks in 1971 is modern thinking on a retro coin. These were in fact "pick up the slack" coins to address the coin shortages of the late 60's and early 70's but the mintmark was required and there is no evidence to even support the possibility of a No S Mintmark 1971 Lincoln. Especially in relationship to packaging errors on US Mint Sets which is what the subject matter of the post.

But, for kicks and grins, lets say that the San Francisco mint, which received all its dies from Philadelphia with mintmarks already added, did happen to get one where the die shop simply forgot to add the MM. Back in 1971, since coins were being produced at all three mints, it would have been no biggie since TPG's hadn't been invented yet to promote the (S) or (W) Slab labels and quite frankly, folks just didn't care because distinguishing a No S business strike from a regular old Philly coin would have been impossible.

None the less, lets play a little.

Lookie what I found!



A 1969 US Mint Set with a philly coin that has an S Mint Mark! Woo Hoo!

On a serious note, ask and you shall receive:



But, back to the OP. His mint sets are simply packaging errors as is mine.

 

I do not know close up of both at forehead. I do see where they are not struck bu the sam die by the T and R in TRUST. Something most discount these days. Why could it be or not be A P & an S with no S?
Why do we assume a packaging mistake more than a mint mistake as all dies were made in Philadelphia in 1971. With the Pressure to release the Ike Dollar I do not believe anyone had their eye on business strike S Pennies If a Proof one was made why could an S one not exist?
If an s one with no S fell on the floor I am sure it was Put in the Philadelphia hopper.
Were any S Strikes destroyed from San Francisco with this Business strike and they missed a few?
I could go on; Yet, why one over the other?

Is the Glass half Empty or half full?
My answer has always been it is full half with water and half with air.
It would never be empty till the glass was out of our Solar System. The Voyager I Spacecraft proved this effect of matter as it left our Solar System yet is still in something.

So, is this in the box or out of the box or possibly either one?

What is different in the two systems Philadelphia or San Francisco as to how a coin is struck for business use?

Else I see no reason to say it is a 1971 11 Coin mint set with an unknown coin. I am sure a few more exist. So should it be Graded?
No one has ever had one graded to my knowledge, have they in your own?
I am a collector just have never been a seller. So does this mean I can not sell?

Believe me I see the issue is unknowable unless you know something I do not. Do you?
I see a positive approach and a negative one. This is good!

Is there something I am not aware of at either mint to rule one out?

Why does 19Lyds consider their set to be two Philadelphia coins if you have one like this?
Your opinions are opinions and I thank you for any clarification you can offer. Because both of his have a mint mark in 1969. Does that rule out anything about my own?

Can anyone say for certain; 100% one way or the other an answer.

Kindness always, dfwrocket.

 

Similar Threads Questions on Proof and Mint sets By smullen in forum US Coins Forum

Similar Threads Questions on Proof and Mint sets By smullen in forum US Coins Forum Did I place this discussion under the wrong thread?

Thanks Looking for advise and both sides of the possibilities.

 

Certainty, thy name is ...

Well ... consider this: There has been an error made. The US gubbamint says here is a package of all coins we made at all our mints this year, and sells it to MR Unsuspecting SAP. He has the sealed plastic which has 2 unmarked cents, one should be from P one from S. But the one from S should have been stamped with an S MM (far as I can tell) so either none, one, or both of the unmarked cents is from the S mint sans MM. Take your pick. Proffer what as you wish. But keep in mind the lack of evidence is not proof. That is all.

 

I've got an entire roll of no mint mark 1971 cents that COULD be from the San Francisco mint that I'll sell you for cheap.

 

Yes as I have stated both people gave good advise. yet even with all these checks known Proof sets a higher form left packaged with no mint marks in 1970 and again in 1971. Seems by 71 they would have been on top of this issue and carefully looking for proof errors. Yet, almost as many were released in 1971 as 1970. I am trying to see if the process is different to give validity to one way or the other else it is a 1971 11 coin mint set with one coin of unknown origin at best.

I am not pursuing this for profiteering just how would these be graded.
Many people may have these and thought why mint sets are cheap. So not worth the trouble.

I simply want facts to support either way. Packing error could be the answer.
Are any business strike records kept of why mistake coins are destroyed?
If so were any destroyed because of MM errors or could this be a mispackaged proof known to exist in 1970 and in 1971; two years in a row! In your example 1922 they fixed this in less than one year. Yet with Proof coins you would hope a higher standard existed.

I am sure more of these exist are there any environmental differences created on the West coast or the East coast that could prove anything?

Were both metals exactly the same or come from differing sources for business strikes in 1971?

Just hunting down facts the 2 S coins in 1969 proves one theory was sound 2 years earlier do any exist from 1971 forward?

Yes, The proof sets were missed. Why would we not expect the same mistake with most coins destroyed in the Business class strikes.

I believe almost anything could be the answer consider the times. The early 1970's morays et al... Uh the summer of Love 1967. People could have over looked many mistakes on the West coast based on flashbacks alone.

I respect all explanations so far just have no facts to base a truly unbiased decision on this set as I only posted this yesterday. I hope more people join in with what they know.

Your reasoning has some validity. Thank you!
Yet, if an MM run ever happened and only a few got through as they were destroyed. I would like to know.

I am hoping for as many points as I can get from the people who know coins best other collectors, experts on grading, as well as all the if's exhausted. There have been one of a kind coins in the recent past. Why not in 1971?

Truly, I wish to thank everyone. I am learning a lot for a youngster of 55; Smile and postulate what would you think if you ran across this set? I purchased these 5 because deposits on coke bottles wet from 3 cents to a nickel. I kind of relish the thought of my way to make money at age 13, might still bring me an interesting twist of fate. After all that was the year someone told me they would be selling bottled water in a few years. I laughed at that one, yet, should have been investing in sources. Ha!

Kindness always,
dfwrocket

 

I don't know why I bother.

Go ahead.

Have your set graded and be sure to note that the 1971 is a No S Mintmark Business Strike.

Share the results.

Say, here's an idea. Send it to Star Grading service (SGS).

They'll grade it as a No S Business Strike and they'll even give you an MS70. Win Win. :thumb:

 

Now really is that response called for?

Thanks I like your knowledge. You taught me much today on possibilities. Even with an example to back you up. Thank you.

Kindness always,
dfwrocket

 

Suppose that in any given year the D or S mints cranked out a run of non MM biz coins accidentally. We probably wouldn't be able to figure that out. That lack of knowledge does not make it fact that any non MM coin had to come from P, some could be an error - undetectable as it may be. Why would any mint care anyway unless it was proof coins? Let them out into the wild and they are passed off as normal unmarked P coins. They rub comes when they accidentally packaged it in a Mint set where the MM is looked for. Tell the mint what you have and ask them to explain the lack of mint mark.

That is a bit different than finding one sealed up in the original wrapper spot sold to you as containing the S marked coin.

 

Actually there are at least 34 other examples. But only in four cases can the branch mint no mintmark coin be told apart from the Philadelphia coin. 1968, 69 , and 70 nickels exist with no mintmarks, Philadelphia did not make nickels in those years. But you can't tell if the no mintmark coins come from Denver or San Francisco. The other case is the 1840 medium letter half dollar. It was struck in New Orleans. This can be proven because the reverse die was used to strike 1839-O capped bust half dollars and the diameter matches the slightly smaller diameter used on the 1840-O halves.

 

Ya learn something new everyday but unfortunately, this tidbit simply fuels certain fantasy fires Michael.

 

no s

here are the photos of no s coins in original packaging

 

Sweet! :thumb:

 

Sweet! proof Set.

Ya know back in 1971 the world was a Magical Fantasy Flames, More for a certain Miss Shipley than coins though, as I was in the 8th Grade.

I like you Avatar 19Lyds some how it has a voice that I recall when i read you posts. I really appreciate your and everyone's input.

Thanks!
dfwrocket

 

Even though the OP was about Proof coins, the discussion has since changed to mint sets. That is what seems to have gotten lost along the way.

 

The first few Posts in this forum address both Proof and Mint sets. I asked if the category was incorrect in my post # 27.
This question remains unanswered. I see both Mint and Proof sets have been the topic from the beginning. Yet I asked if it was the correct thread.

Also I wish to say, Wow, I mean no disrespect to anyone; I truly appreciate everyone's opinions as one person I know a few things with many I find things I never saw. I will Have

Thank you ALL for taking time to look I am enjoying everyone and their unique view point. I see this as an amazing Forum!

Thank you all so very much. I am amazed at the knowledge on display in this Forum and Threads. It seems some folks are really spirited and excited in these discussions. I am sure this is because they know much more than me on many topics, I have never considered. Every answer is cherished as it is a person saying what they think.

My Dad was always one to debate. He will take an opposing positions this helps educate me; I bet others agree.

I do not have a carrier in this field nor understand some topics as completely as many folks. All the issues become clearer as others debate. I believe this helps all of us all become stronger; More knowledgeable. Look How many folks are here. WOW, I AM THANKFUL AND IMPRESSED with everyone's helping.

I felt I needed to clarify as all positions are Fantastic. So #1 IS a real apology if anyone feels offended; this is not my intent in any way shape or form. I hope I am making some friends; That is important to me!

Sincerely,
DFWROCKET