OUCH! PCGS major error and bidders paying top dollar! Dateless 1917 slabbed 1916!

Are you sure about that? Fake PCGS holders are getting sophisticated, and you haven't even seen the back of the holder.

http://www.cointalk.com/t213450/

 

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Paranoia runs rampant in this group. If you want in, you have to meet their stringent security requirements... which eliminates anyone who ever bought anything from a Chinese based seller.

 

If they are indeed as crazy as you all make them out to be then they are doing no good for the community. Knowledge when shared is the greatest way to protect the masses.

 

Let's put it this way... they've stepped on more than a few toes, enough so that their "founder" was banned from the group by eBay. I don't want to say too much about them (I know there were a few CT members that were also members there.. this goes back a few years though). In theory their ideology is sound; in practice, not so much. I'm sure they would have plenty to say about the auction the OP linked, but again, their paranoia prevents the typical non-expert buyer from viewing what would be valuable information.

 

man PCGS needs to come up with a security label, red in color, on the inside of the holder. When the holder is seperated is turns blue or green or whatever color, money is money....hey maybe I should copy write that idea?

 

Maybe it's just me but the auction photos seem to show a higher head placement (like in a 1916) and also one lock of hair, instead of two, granted this can get blended together when well worn ... these are just mere observations by me, I do NOT deal in these

edit:

Unless this is the 2nd lock of hair? (circled in red)

 

WINNER OF THIS AUCTION WILL PAY ALL SHIPPING CHARGES AND ALL SALES ARE FINAL.. I WILL SHIP OUT OF THE COUNTRY, BUT TRACKING AND INSURANCE IS REQUIRED.

This is at the bottom. So sorry for the winner!

The seller has a couple of bad feedbacks also. One looks like he didn't like the price it sold for and maybe didn't send it. Not sure though. Just a hypothesis.

 

Yep... no returns allowed. That right there should raise some sort of a red flag.

 

I'm pretty sure the buyer could file a SNAD with eBay if he quickly verifies the coin is not a '16. Then he would get his money back regardless.

 

I am not so sure. The coin is certified by an ebay approved grader so it wouldn't be too hard for the seller to win especially if he claims that PCGS guarantee applies. Although it is not really an issue since it is unlikely the buyer will ever know that it is a '17.

The second curl in the hair is visible but usually weak at this grade point.

 

The only way the buyer could "win" is if he resubmits to PCGS. Probably won't happen though, unless the buyer has some doubt when he receives the coin. I'm still not convinced it's a '17, as the photos are incredibly bad. I know "mechanical" errors happen (even though I find it hard to believe in this case). Personally, I'd rather have a replica filling the hole in my collection instead of a questionable "no date" coin.

 

The pics should be plenty clear to tell the difference. The markers have been highlighted many times in this thread. Here lets convince you. The only thing not clear enough to see is the head.

 

Thanks for posting those images... it sure looks like a '17. I guess the prospective buyers are on their own, as there is no way they can be warned of the possible problems facing them if they win this coin.

 

Edit: nevermind, looked at it closely and I am just seeing things. i am required to wear corrective lenses while driving! LOL

 

I feel bad for the bidders.

 

Back in the "old days", any eBay member could email a perspective bidder and warn him of a possible problem with the auction. This seemed like a good thing at the time, but it's also what got the CFe group in trouble. EBay frowns on any outside auction interference... and letting a bidder know that the coin he's bidding on is fake, altered, or mis-identified is considered interfering with an auction. It's still possible to "report" an auction, but that doesn't always work (and the bidder is out of the loop). So all that a knowledgeable member can do is sit back and watch, as the "fool and his money" part ways.

 

Can you back that statement up? I have seen otherwise..

 

My language was "I am quite sure" not I guarantee. Why don't you buy it and send it to PCGS. PCGS guarantee seems to suggest they would not cover this though.

 

Or watch for the buyer to post feedback to the seller, then you can contact the buyer and warn him that he just bought a fake. It's an after the fact warning but could still allow him to make a return or file a claim with eBay.

 

So it finished lets see what happens.