What's the ethical thing to do?

I've lost a few dollars on coins sold on Ebay. Do the buyers owe me?

 

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Here's a question: Would this not be covered by the ANACS guarantee? Why couldn't the seller file a beef with ANACS to get reimbursed the difference in fair market value? Then both parties would be happy.

 

He may have known (IMHO he should have at least suspected and might have, I can't claim to know), and if he didn't he was being lazy and depending on the slab (a BAD way to buy coins, so likely not the actuality, he's been in business too long).

Needless to say, I will NEVER buy or sell from him again, and I wasn't involved in this deal, so he's lost a good and long-time customer regardless

 

I don't think their guarantee works like that. Not even CAC's does.

 

Of course, because people should never lose money on coins...

 

Point taken, this is where my lack of knowledge of the Lincoln series and the difference between Matte proofs and normal proofs comes in... maybe I'm ripe for a similar situation?

I agree with your comparison in spirit (BTW, I did almost the same exact thing recently with a friend's computer, but luckily we identified the bad DIMM before spending the money on a new HDD).

But as an aside (not for arguments sake but more of a discussion point) I think your example has a fundamental difference - you made an improper diagnosis, but the information you were working on was correct at the time, you honestly believed it was the motherboard. You didn't know it was the DIMM but steered them to the MB regardless in order to make a better profit (I'm taking the leap that you were also selling them the computer/parts in this theoretical situation). If you were doing volunteer work and you were giving an honest opinion and helping them with no expectation of compensation it's different than if you were the computer shop giving them a recommendation that furthered your bottom line at an unnecessary expense to them. Either way in your example the right thing to do would be to inform the person you made a mistake, if nothing else they will appreciate the honesty and may even let you keep the old hardware simply for spending the time helping them if it indeed was volunteer (have had that happen before also).

Either way I agree with your train of thought and stated actions.

 

...and it's part the reason I haven't ventured beyond bullion and common coins yet. I think the highest premium over melt/face I've paid for coins so far is about 3x melt value on a silver coin, and I bought a flying eagle cent for about $20. No $5,000 Morgans for me...

Edit: When thinking about the highest premium over spot I've paid, I was thinking about larger coins. I forgot about the smaller coins. In that case I think the most I've pad was about 15x. (About $30 for $2 worth of silver)

 

the sole voice of reason

 

hardly...

 

ANACS changed hands. There is no guarantee on old slabs.

 

The "dealer" has a responsibility to be HONEST!!! If he knew this coin was mislabled the ethical thing to do would have been to put the cards on the table anf tell the "collector" he has a Matte proof on his hands and worth quite a bit more than a business strike. Dealers "SHOULD" be honest. But they are not most of the time. You sould be able to "TRUST" your dealer or move on, find one you can trust. I hate hearing stories like this. DEX

 

Did the seller go back to the person/dealer he bought it from and offer them more money? Doubtful..

 

There is always room for debate on exactly what was bought/sold, however, I still think what was bought/sold was a reputable TPG MS-66-RD cent (of whatever year it is). It could have been NGC or PCGS and still carried the same amount of weight. Also, we all know that same coin could be resubmitted and come back as a 65 or 67. Again, I said what was bought/sold (within reason) was a MS-66-RD cent of the year in issue. I do not think if the coin was resubmitted to any reputable TPG and came back a point higher/lower that that would void the agreement.

The big questions are: what were the material terms (the terms that really matter) of the agreement; what terms would be adjudicated as a matter of law (judge decides); and what terms would be adjudicated as a matter of fact (jury decides - using the reasonable person - possible reasonable numismatist - standard).

It is all these variables that keep lawyers in a job.

 

Don't disagree. However, I would focus on one fact I believe you are missing. You are saying it was a contract for a MS66 cent. If the coin is in fact a matte proof, its NOT a MS66. It may be a PF66, but could never be an MS66. That is the foundation of my argument, that effectively the good in the contract was incorrect, in which case the transaction should be void and renegotiated with the correct good. A dealer should have noticed if this was indeed a proof. I would liken it to an overlooked mintmark which decided changes the nature of the good.

 

very well said

 

So, let me get this straight......................you got Cherry Picked and you're displeased?

 

It depends. Did the Mint dispose of the coin as MS or PR? Assuming the coin is PR, did the original owner dispose of it as MS or PR? What did the second owner think he/she purchased? In this case, how long did the seller own the coin? These are only a few questions that would need to be asked, however, I think the instant sale is the only one that need be evaluated.

 

sounds great...............as long as the whenever someone Cherry Picks a Dealer, they share their profits with the dealer that was cherry picked.

Its a two way street folks.

 

Exactly.

I love these hypocritical "ethics" threads.

And no, I'm not a bad guy and my ethics are top motch but...........if folks are wanting dealers who happen across a valuable coin after the fact to cough up profits, then folks need to cough up their own profits everytime they "cherry pick" a dealer instead of whining about how they got "cherry picked" by playing the "ethics" card.

I'm sorry it worked out this way for the OP but thats what happens if you don't do your homework and instead rely upon TPG Plastic. It's common knowledge that TPG's occasionally miss MPL Lincolns. It's also common knowledge that many collectors exploit this for their own gain. I cannot recall how many threads I've read where a collector is going through a dealers "junk bin" and they come across what they believe to be a MPL. They purchase the coin and then validate it as an MPL then post their "good fortune" on every forum they have access to.

Sorry, but it is a two way street if you really want to play that card!

 

No its not. Its pretty well accepted that a dealer has a higher level of knowledge presumed. If you buy something from a dealer, he should have no defense since he is supposed to be professional and knowledgable. A seller may or not be knowledgable. It is not legally presumed that they "should have known better", but that IS presumed of a dealer.

I have bought items from a dealer that he might have missed, doubled dies etc, and not felt 1% guilt about it. He should check his goods, and if he refuses to, then he accepts the risk. However, some little old lady going to a coin dealer should NOT get ripped off just because she does not know about coins. A "fair" profit margin is what he is entitled to. This is a loose definition, but paying $300 for a $700 coin is fine, paying $300 for a $6000 coin is not "fine" in almost anyone's book.