What's the ethical thing to do?

Sounds like a reverse cherry pick to me. However, even though he is not obligated to do so, the moral high road would be for the more learned dealer to work out some sort deal with the customer. For example, he can contact the customer and tell him that he was able to sell the coin for much more than he thought and has decided to give him some extra cash....maybe $1,000 or more depending on sales price. TC

 

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I am probably going to lose this, but the contract was for an ANACS MS-66 RD cent and that is exactly what was sold/bought. That fact (or supposition) that ANACS was wrong is not part of the equation. Suppose the dealer bought the coin and then submitted it to PCGS and got a 67 (+$2,000), would he then have to return the coin to the seller? Or, on the other hand, suppose he only got a 64 (-$500), would he then have to return it to the seller (or, in this case, would the seller then have to accept its return)?

Now, having said that, I would think that the dealer should ethically contribute something back to the seller, but I certainty do not see an contractional obligation to do so.

 

Since it is a 1916 it is probable that the seller is not the original owner. With that being said and according to what you said, wouldn't you then have to go back on every single sale this coin was ever a part of to get the coin back to the original owner?

 

The deal is struck. The seller sold the coin to the dealer and afterwards, the dealer finds it is a matte proof in a MS holder. I say the dealer is entitled to the catch. If it does turn out for them, great.

Think of it this way: Just a while ago, one of the CT Members bought a small lot of Mercury dimes for about $10, when he got the coins in the mail, the member found a 1942-D 42/1. He then sent it to a TPG where it got MS65+ as a grade. That is a very, very high dollar coin he just picked. Now if the seller were to consign it to Heritage Auctions and it sells for near $30,000 or more, is the member obligated to split the profit with the person who sold him the coin? Nope. The seller did not take the time to inspect the coin and didn't win big because they didn't look further into the coin. The buyer won because he took the time to research and look closer at the coin.

 

I don't think this is about obligation, more likely a question about personal morals and or ethics. Personally, I'd be tickled to return to the seller and hand him more cash, splitting the gain. Still a win for both parties, and for me personally, one that would let me sleep at night. Who here really wants to take advantage of someone? (Intentionally or unintentionally.) In the end, we're all made of different stuff, so we can only judge our own actions. Personally, there's not one person in this world I want to be guilty of taking advantage of.

That's just who I am, and my opinion.

 

... So after reading all of the replies, how do the author/authors of The Cherry Pickers Guide sleep at night? Yes, if the dealer has a nice relationship with whom he purchased the coin, then profit sharing may be the correct rout. But cherry picking is part of the game, it's a zero-sum game just like with most tangible assets. Somebody's gain is always somebody else's loss (whether they know it or not), thats the way the world keeps turning. From what I see in this case though, a good relationship between seller/dealer has already been established, so don't be greedy, share the wealth and give the seller that certain confidence that he/she will need the next time they go to sell their coins. Give a little and take a little, but in the end everyone needs to eat to stay alive :yes:

 

I realize this isn't what you are asking about, but the coin likely is not a matte proof. I write this because most 1916 Lincoln cents were struck very well and with newly rehubbed and touched up dies.

 

If a dealer makes an offer and the seller accepts it, it's a fair transaction.

My question was is it ethical for the "expert" of the two to take advantage? Should he pay something more if the coin turns out to be a MPL?

 

Tom,

I had an opportunity to help authenticate the coin as a MPL for the dealer. It has ALL of the characteristic markers. The only thing that was left in doubt was the rims as they are hidden by the slab. When I asked what he'd do, he told be flatly that it's his gain and the seller's loss.

It made me wish that the coin wasn't an MPL, but it likely is.

 

Did the seller present it asking for advice, and did the dealer suspect at the time that it was MPL?

 

Throw the seller a bone, it could turn out poorly though if he mentions it was a matte proof and the seller decides he should get more than he got, the dealer would know the seller better than I, he might be happier not knowing that the cent was a matte proof, more than if the dealer shot him a few extra c notes.

 

the seller presented it as an item for sale. I have no clue what the dealer was thinking, nor will I ever assume that I do. When you (as the dealer) discover the coin is an MPL, do you take advantage? or do you share the info with the seller?

IMHO, you share the info and some (not all or not even half) of the profit. Your knowledge is worth something. But this guy didn't sell it to an anonymous stranger of eBay, he sold it to a dealer that bought his stuff in the recent past and that he is planning to sell more to in the future

 

If the seller is happy with what he got then that should end it. You should be educated about something if you're planning on selling it especially if you want the best price for it.

 

...street rules say that since you helped him (the dealer) with his big win, now he owes you something... I'm starting to think that if he is cutting his ties with the seller and wants it all for himself, then he will most likely make a serious profit and that is where good folks like yourself; with your wealth of knowledge on the given subject, and the willingness to "help authenticate" his new find... Aaaaand since it was a reverse cherry pick and he plans on flipping after re-grading for a nice profit. 11 points sounds fair (11% of total sale that is; as the street pays no attention to net; only gross) in your favor (I always thought the number 10 to be unlucky)... Hey, then maybe you could find the original seller who got no love from this dealer and give him your 11 points worth and then now he can do business with you the next time he wants to sell something. Or if dealer gives you your share, you may help him authenticate more coins in the future.

p.s. but this isn't the streets; Thank God and good luck either way :hail:

 

I think the legitimate question is whether it would be a smart business decision. I don't see it as an ethical question unless the seller went to the dealer asking him his advice about the coin, and the dealer then withheld his opinion about suspecting it was an MPL. How is this any different from Cherrypicking a dealer, or Cherrypicking an ignorant Ebay seller? Or as someone else brought up, buying a PCGS coin that is graded one down from top while suspecting that it could be resubmitted and get the top-pop grade, thus potentially boosting the value thousands of dollars?

 

so, if a customer walks into a dealer with a 1932 quarter, you'd advise the dealer to make an offer before he looks at the mint mark and if the seller takes it, everyone's ok???

is that what you're saying?

 

Is the seller asking the dealer what the value is, or is he saying he wants to sell the coin for a certain price? If I go to buy a 1999 Proof set, am I obligated to look for the CAM and tell the seller, whether it be a dealer or not, that it's a CAM?

 

I think a better analogy would be if the quarter is slabbed as no mint mark and you don't look for a mint mark and buy it for the label, then later on see a mint mark then everything is okay.

 

he's saying he wants to sell the coin. Period

he didn't ask for a price, the dealer offered

 

I think what people are missing in this discussion is that if and it's a big IF...

the coin is a circulation strike and it's NOT a 66 RED, then the dealer would have a guarantee to fall back on (provided by ANACS)

what does that seller depend on (besides the dealer's expertise and honesty?)