Is it possible to change a details coin to a regular coin?

Let's say I have an AU details coin that has been whizzed. Is it possible to hid the whizzing well enough to fool a grading company? Can't you just keep it in your pocket for while or even speed up the process by rubbing the coin between your fingers? Maybe even just throw the coin in a bag with other coins and bounce the bag around?

 

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Prepare for a firestorm of heated comments...

 

Hmmm good question and one I would like to hear some expert answers too but I would think it possible if you were willing to degrade the coin to a low enough point that the whizzing no longer shows but it sure wouldn't be AU anymore.

 

Sure. I know people who make their living selling slabs, and they've often gotten favorable results by "circulating" a coin in their pockets to a couple points lower grade.

 

Figured I would get those

That's what made me think. If you can take an AU details coin worth $20 and turn it into a VF-20 coin worth $30 then why would someone not want to do that?

 

Sure, but it ain't gonna be an AU coin anymore, is it? For an AU coin that's been over-dipped, ya might get away with it by leaving it on the window sill for a couple months, turning it ever so often, and praying that the coin might develop some nice toning. I don't think that would happen with a wiz job though. Those guys have a way of seeing right through things of that nature.

 

It all depends upon the coin and the damage which caused the details grade.

I wouldn't think that a "whizzed" coin has an ice cubes chance in **** of ever grading primarily because whizzing "moves" metal around on the coin. Imparting enough wear to eventually get it graded would take years of wear and even then it would have to be carefully viewed.

A downside to "pocket pieces" is that not only does the coin wear, but its also susceptible to some ungodly scratches due to todays copper-nickel clad coins.

 

Read more: http://www.cointalk.com/t227551/#ixzz2SfoZW9Fc

AU-50 to VF-20 is a whole lot of wear for $10...

 

Envelope and sunlight maybe...

 

Actually, whizzing does not "move" metal per say. It is an erosional process... here is an interesting approach:

http://www.mendosus.com/whizzing/whiz.html

Overall, I concur with your points, once a problem coin, it is always a problem coin (unless, of course, it is bullion).

 

The metal was on the coin; now it's on the tabletop. If that's not "moving", I don't know what is.

Seriously, I'm pretty sure the guy at that link is missing something about whizzing, but I don't have enough experience to clarify it. I do know that I've got plenty of silver coins with scratches that have raised ridges along the side, and I've assumed that whizzing would do the same thing, only on a different scale.

I'm pretty sure that the soft nylon brushes and the carbon-steel bristles this guy tried aren't the only alternatives -- if I were trying to do the same experiment, I'd probably start with brass bristles, which are of comparable hardness to the coin material.

 

Sure but since the whizzing probably covers the whole surface of the coin you will have to wear it down enough to hide those traces in the protected areas of the coin. VF probably isn't going to do it. More likely you will have to take it down to a VG or less.

 

Yes

 

I have a friend in NY who bought a VF cleaned 1807 "Bearded Goddess" Capped Bust Half, a very rare variety. He gave it to his coin doctor friend, who made it look circulated and much more attractive than the awful cleaning it had. He then sent it in to NGC because he wanted to add it to his registry set. It came back VF details cleaned. But he didn't care (at least, he said he didn't). He just needed it holdered anyway so it could count as 1 point or whatever for his NGC registry. He wanted it to look better before he slabbed it. Of course, I'm sure he was holding onto some hope that they'd call it VF20 problem-free. But apparently the cleaning was still detectable.

 

Yes...in the same way you can take a 1978 Pinto thats been in a front end collision and drive it and drive it and drive it until it eventually becomes a cherry 56 Chevy with whitewalls.
Guy

 

Whizzing cannot be hid - whether it is detected is another matter. I believe a whizzed coin can become gradable if all altered metal is worn away (assuming no other problems exist).

 

One of many definitions of whizzing: http://www.us-coin-values-advisor.com/coin-collecting-guide.html#W

Specifically: "The process of altering of a coin's appearance by using a rotating wire brush to move or remove metal from the surface."

Some signs of whizzing would be the build up of metal in the area between device and field.

Whizzing actually "adds" additional reflective surface to the coin by creating grooves on the coin very much similar to the peaks and valleys of the grooves on a phonograph record. Hopefully, everybody still remembers what a phonograph record looks like. If not, look at the back of any CD or DVD for a similar appearance (sp?). This additional reflective surface is what causes the cartwheel or lustrous effect.

Likewise, the mint luster on a coin is the result of the alignment of the surface metals due to the striking process and the resulting movement of metal. The difference being that one (the real one) radiates out from the center while the artificial process (whizzing) run concentric with the center (like a vinyl record).