How bad does cleaning hurt Key Date coins?

I've come across some key and semi key date coins that are in very nice condition, but have either been harshly cleaned, whizzed or something else. How much is that going to hurt the value of the coin? I need all of them for my various sets I have going. I just don't want to overpay. What are your opinions of these coins?

The 1893 appears to be whizzed.

Here's a few pictures of some of the coins.

 

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i know cleaned keydates still sell for more then normal dates buts thats about all i know

 

CLeaned Coins are just that, cleaned.

Keeping in mind that collectors will gravitate toward "non-messed with" coins should give you the answer you're looking for.

Of course, it's all really relative because if its a coin that everybody wants, they'll pay a premium for it, cleaned or not, but if its a coin that's readily available in any grade, then the cleaned coin just drops off the list.

Buyers off "messed with" coins should keep this in mind. Specifically new collectors looking to lastch onto a "Key Date" for their collections.

Do the research and price comparisons before buying as shooting from the hip CAN and OFTEN DOES result in a damaged foot!

 

Pretty bad. Generally, a cleaned coin is worth less than half that of an original, problem-free coin.

 

Yes. Cleaning coins devalues them, to most people. I beleive in the tune of half the market value.

 

IMO 90% of buyers trying to put sets together can only afford either problem key dates or very low grade key dates. So they will remain very strong on the market even with being whizzed or improperly cleaned. GP is right, it does vary greatly depending on the piece, but if I can buy (for example) a whizzed 1893 Morgan with XF-AU details for FINE money, I'd typically pull the trigger on it. BUT on coins like a 1909-S VDB cent. The prices only go up tiny amounts for each grade until you get to, say, AU-MS. So you can buy a scratched and cleaned GOOD details one for $400 or get a slabbed VG10 for $520. (Just an example). So in that case, there's no point in buying the problem coin, because for just a little more you can get a much better coin with no issues. Just go by redbook to see how the retail price increments increase from grade-to-grade, then make your decisions on a coin-to-coin basis. Hope that helps.

 

Value Is Often Determined By The Beholder And The Holder!!

I believe the comments of Doug were correct and stellar. The basic premise being that value is subjectively determined by the Seller and the Buyer.

A strong factor in determining value is whether the coin has been graded by a TPG, and the general acceptance of the grading party. The seller, regardless of obvious exceptions to "normal" grading standards, will generally always argue that the TPG is the ultimate authority of value. Buyers often disregard technical standards for a coin in favor of the "Market" grade of a TPG.

I BELIEVE that the linked coin provides a whole new meaning to "market grading" of an improperly cleaned over-graded coin. I may have viewed the images improperly, but I believe if that coin were offered raw, its value would be significantly diminished. Presentation is an important factor. I'll let you decide if the condition effects value: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1942-1-PCGS-EF40-Mercury-Dime-/280802117566?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item41611c47be#ht_1634wt_663

I personally will purchase certain properly cleaned coins at an elevated market value, as various TPG view cleaning differently, and buyers generally like coins that appear in "mint state".

JMHO :thumb:

 

You're looking at a whole bunch of hurtin' if you go down that road.

 

I picked up a 1931-S Lincoln with an OLD cleaning for $55. The color is off, but there's not much else that would indicate a cleaned coin. Minus the cleaning, it would have been in the VF range.

 

problem coins will always be a problem when you want to sell.

 

I have a PCGS AU details cleaned 1931-S Lincoln, and to look at it from the front you don't even notice anything is wrong as the cleaning was done on the reverse, and barely half the reverse was cleaned. I still wouldn't let it go for under $100.

 

Like Doug says, it depends. Thing with a cleaned or messed with coin is you had better be prepared to wish to own this your whole life, since to sell them can be a nightmare.

Price depreciation will totally depend on how it was "messed with". Old cleaning but now retoning? Not as much. Whizzing? Muhc more of a discount. Tooling, filled holes, etc? Yeah, maybe worth 20% of a clean example.

This is why Doug cannot give you an answer sir, its the DEGREE of how badly the coin was messed with, and the PERCEPTION of the buyer as to how badly this degrades a coins desirability, that will determine the value.

Having said that, I am fine with problem coins. Maybe its because almost all ancients would be classified by US collectors as "problems". Anyone having a "problem" 1793 Chain cent with AMERI. please let me know.

 

My question to you Doug, and i know this can be broken down even further on a coin by coin basis, but in general terms, as i think this will help alot of folks out. In what order would YOU put the various degrees of problems. Or if thats too personal, what is the general acceptance level of a whizzed coin, corroded coin, and plugged coin, but expanded through most of the major coin issues (environmental, cleaned, harshly cleaned, bent, etc)

Maybe a pyramid illustration of which coins to completely stay away from at the bottom, to the more 'acceptable' problems being near the top. (kidding of course, but some sort of scale would be nice, descending order maybe, starting with the most acceptable and going to the worse?, IDK)

Does that make sense?

And again, i know this will vary greatly depending on several factors, but just overall, how would you rate the different problems a coin can have based off of whats commonly found on TPG labels.

 

I dont mind problem coins so much either, i think every coin that interests a person has the opportunity to find a new home and if the owner 'grows' out of it or wants to upgrade, then thats just another part of the experience and we grow from it.

I dont agree with taking problem coins and then using them to sell to unknowing buyers to turn a profit as a business model. But the enjoyment of problem coins is fine with me, if they are for personal use.

 

My problem coin order from bad to worst: Improperly cleaned, scratch, harshly cleaned, environmental damage, damaged, bent, grafitti, holed, holed & plugged.

 

It starts out as the buyers prerogative. Then when he sells he must find someone with the same outlook about unusual conditions, he has. Then afterwards, the debate on it's value will take place. If you thought grading was subjective, wait until you see what happens with either of these two issues. Personally, I would never buy a problem coin, regardless, period, ever. That's just me, so I don't run up against this situation. If money is your problem, step down to a grade which is appropriate. If AG is still uncomfortable price wise, move on.

 

I do prefer "problem-free" coins, but I don't avoid problem coins so assiduously as some posters.

As we've seen, the definition of "problem coin" has evolved over time. Many decades ago, toning ("tarnish") on a coin was considered a problem, and cleaning was considered the solution.

In fifty years, what "specialized analytical instruments" will be built into everyone's phones, or glasses, or eyes? What conditions that can barely be detected today will make a coin "ungradeable"? Pre-corrosion? Internal strains indicating some sort of mistreatment post-strike? Undesirable crystalline alignments along flow lines? Too much adsorbed oxygen?

To me, "problem coin" is to a large degree a question of fashion. Not that I think abrasive cleaning will ever come back into fashion, but I think certain "problems" (for example, light, non-harsh cleaning) are getting a big over-reaction today. I wish people would relax a little bit, but I don't see it happening any time soon.