Large Cent Purchase - 1797 NC-5

So true, and it affects the price a great deal. I have seem S-178s in good condition but without the single leaf on the right stem visible sell for much less than the same condition coin with that leaf visible. Seems like a lot of collectors don't want to own that special variety if the diagnostics are missing...

 

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Or even something prosaic as a 1916d dime. Even in AG buyers want to see a nice strong D or else will not pay strong money for it, even in TPG plastic. I do not blame them.

 

Perhaps i should be more specific. It's the only 1797 pairing of this reverse die (Sheldon Rev R/Breen Rev J). It was also used for three varieties of 1796.

This shows the diagnostic berries:



Sheldon Rev E and L also have a berry at TA, but also have a berry at C(A). Sheldon Rev N has a berry directly under T with no berry at C(A) and is the closest match, but readily distinguishable from this.

 

First Marshall congrats on the interesting and rare coin. This has been a very interesting thread for me and leaves me with some questions.

I am not a specialized large cent collector but do like them and have only a couple right now. I have one that has been in my collection for quite a while and has the original tag in the flip. I have not really done anything in the way of research on the coin. It is a 1794 Cent in fine condition with what I would call light pitting and nice color (I can try to take pictures but they probably won't come out very well). The tag says "1794, Five Braided Locks, Small Circular Curl" Then it says "L18, 69 R-4+, 36-II 69 Hays 50". It also says "Ex: Ed Norwak 2/80". Can somebody shed more light on my coin?

I did not intend to jump on this thread with questions about my coin but it looks like there is a lot of knowledge here.

 

You have a coin with some provenance or history of ownership there. The L18 is probably an earlier Obverse Reverse designation. Perhaps Hayes. 69 refers to Sheldon's Identification for the variety. R4+ was the rarity rating at the time (now R3). 36 II is Sheldon's Obv Rev designation for the dies used on his 69. Then a complete designation of the Hayes 50 alternative designation. Ed Norwack 2/80 indicates the previous owner and the month and year that either Ed or the subsequent owner acquired the coin. It depends on the tracking system of the owner who made the notes.

Be careful to retain these notes since it enhances the desirability of ownership for many who see provenance as an enhancement of the ownership experience.

The chances are that the coin is properly attributed when it has such a provenance, but there have been a few exceptions (such as a misattributed 1799 S-188 which was called an NC-1 through several changes of ownership).

If you can find a way to post pictures, several of us on CT would be glad to verify the attribution and than we can all play around with what we think EAC or TPG would grade this.

In any event, congratulations on your entry into the world of variety appreciation.

 

I find this quite amusing since finding a low grade 16-D with a strong D immediately raises my suspicion of tampering. But some people???

 

It's a shame because that variety has so many secondary diagnostics that the single leaf primary diagnostic is not that important for attribution.

I have a couple of S-195s which have a diagnostic not normally recognized by fellow specialists which have almost no chance of drawing a premium because the primary diagnostics are questionable. Die Cracks of middle and late states and the thickness of a fraction bar are difficult to recognize on early die states of low grade specimens. There is usually no problem narrowing the choices down between the R5 S-195 and the R3- S-194 that share the same obverse. But most will just take the uncertainty and label all questionable coins as S-194s.

Conder uses a secondary diagnostic at the right stem where it attaches to the ribbon almost at the junction of the ribbon and the central vine of the wreath on the S-195 and attaches below that junction on the S-194. I have observed a spike on end of the left stem of the S-195 which is not present on the S-194. But like I say, being unrecognized as a diagnostic leaves it without the usual premium for R5 coins, even in poor condition.

 

More great information. I really appreciate it. I have been collecting for many years but only now that I am older with more time on my hands and a bit more spendable cash in my pocket I can get deeper into appreciating my coins. I will try to get decent pictures of my cent up later today in a new thread. My local dealer also has a nice tray of 1/2 cents and large cents that I am going to pay more attention to.