ANCIENT - The Dynamic Duo - Trajan and Hercules - Tyre Phoenicia

...and there always are way too many that get away.

We can't own everything, but we sure can wish we could.

 

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Conjecture is just that. You can't ever know the truth behind these incidents. All you can do is move on.

 

Anoob, I'm just now trying to catch up. I've been sick for most of the day. Sorry to hear about this coin. It was a spectacular coin. Keep us up to date.

 

True but that is little help when it happens. I avoid a few dealers who I believe to be perfectly honest just because I am uncomfortable with their business skills. Things like offering the same coin on two venues at once open a real possibility that it will sell on both. Who gets the coin? If a coin is listed on VCoins and eBay but does not close there for several days, what is the status of the leading bidder in a regular (not Buy it Now) auction? I realize there are good excuses for poor service (years ago I even had a payment sent to the UK refunded after a couple months with the explanation that the dealer died the day after I reserved the coin).

I would not go so far as to say I'd never deal with the OP (Trajan) dealer again but I'd not call it an incentive to seek other things on his list either.

 

I generally agree, and that's precisely what happened in my case. I bought the coin on eBay but it had been sold earlier in the day on FORVM's website. But considering the dealer is forvmancientcoins, I'm loathe to cross them of my list of sellers.

 

I know the dealer who had this coin cause I was eying the coin myself. Partly why I avoided this thread cause I was peeved it was bought but I didnt have the funds at the time.

I have bought many coins from this dealer and done MANY trades. He is one of the fairest ones I have dealt with, especially when it comes to buying coins outright from me. Ive actually made decent profit from him.

I can believe what he says. He gets many nice/rare coins and I dont see a bait/switch scenario from him at all.

As been said, lick your wounds and hope another surfaces, maybe from him. Ive had to do it too many times since getting into ancients. Sometimes the wait ended up with a better grade coin at a cheaper price.

 

Thanks everyone for chiming in. :hail:

I highly value all of your guys opinions and have considered many of the points raised myself. I really have no reason to think the seller is doing anything dishonest, Mat's experience furthers that belief. I realize that things happen and I believe people are inherently good.

The real sad part is that the coin was lost for 2000+/- years preserved ,found and then lost again. I really hope it turns up. Now, I know if I was the seller I would be super
unhappy about "discovering" the coin is gone. He said it appeared he had it, it was on his online list and in his written inventory, I have no reason not to believe him. I know if I lost one of my tetradrachms my head would explode.

I shot the seller an email, entertaining spending a little more and getting something a little better. Initially, against my better judgement but after reading Mat's reply I feel better about it.

Being peeved about the coin Mat, understandable, I would like to think we both have great taste. I would be admittedly irritated if you ended up with the coin.

 

Personal references mean a ton and yours could not be better.

 

Sounds like a nice dealer... can you pm me the dealer?

I agree that the taste to pick this one up is great...

From the Punic mothercity too :thumbs:

 

UPDATE:

The seller got back to me. alas the coin is not in his inventory. He issued me a complete refund no questions asked. As well as a desire to 'make good' on deal at a later time.

I did ask him about a certain Augustus denarius that was listed as available. This denarius was in great shape and had the AUGUSTUS CAESAR with the reverse of Tarpeia buried to her waist in shields. It was listed at about the same price. I would love to have owned that piece.

Surprisingly that coin as well was "sold." He promised he would have future inventory, but I must admit I am less inclined to buy something from this seller unless its really off the hook.

Again he seems nice, and I have no reason to suspect otherwise. If guilty of anything the seller might be guilty of running a very sloppy store, with numerous coins that are not available yet are listed for sale, already with the bulk of the inventory listed as "sold."

I'd like to thank all those who chimed and gave your much valued opinions. Please stay tuned for the Next Adventure.

 

Anoob is this a ebay store or a vcoins store???

 

Its a vcoins dealer and numismall. Could be why some stock is marked sold and the other site itbisnt.

 

...and that is the problem. A dealer today might very well have their own site, a store on VCoins and another on Numismall. They also might sell some coins through eBay and attend local coin shows. A dealer who chooses to spread himself around like that needs to be very careful to keep up with the maintenance of lists of what is available and what has been sold. I have seen listings on VCoins clearly marked "This coin has been listed on eBay." In my opinion offering a coin on eBay as an auction item (or consigning it to CNG for that matter) is a contract to sell that exact coin for whatever the final bid might be. That could be half what it is worth or twice but the coin should be off the market until the auction closes. Auction terms rarely include a line "unless the seller gets a better offer on another venue."

It is worse now that software will allow us to buy and pay for (PayPal or Credit Card) a coin without the dealer knowing we did so. In the 'old days' we sent a check and did not know if we would be first or not until the mail brought the coin or our returned check. Soon after that we started calling the dealer on the phone and reserving a coin after which we had a specified number of days to send payment or the seller would cancel the reservation. Credit Cards over the phone eliminated that waiting period but still all sales were processed 'hands on' by the seller. Even then there could be a problem when a dealer took stock to a show and sold things while their staff back at the office was taking orders over the phone. We knew when ordering that an order not confirmed with the dealer was provisional. eBay changed all that with the concept of a contract where a buyer agrees to pay a bid he offered and a seller agreed in advance to sell the coin for the closing price. Because some sellers had problems with that concept, eBay introduced things like Reserves and Buy it Now lots but, still was expected to sell a lot if the reserve was met or the Buy it Now was clicked.

As buyers we each will decide whether we expect sellers to follow the rules they agreed to when they offered the coin in a specific marketplace. We can decide whether we reward poor business practices or not. We vote with our patronage. I'm not saying a seller will not err on occasion but I do most certainly believe that each should be expected to make every effort to follow the rules they agreed to when they offered the coin and keep up with which items are sold and which are not. If that is too hard, perhaps they need to cut back on the number of online shops they maintain.

 

I would agree with you Doug. I wouldn't care for such a situation like that either. I am hoping the OP's situation was not that. That would leave me a lot angrier than a dealer simply losing a coin. Misplacing it I can accept, we are all human. Selling it on another venue but not updating your listings would seriously peeve me off.

 

Then I suppose the three of us are in agreeance. The OP coin was simply lost, but the coin I was going to replace it with (of similar price) was sold at a previous venue. I must admit I was very irritated. Seeing as the coin was not listed as sold on any venue, the seller or his staff did not update the listing. Now I think to myself how many other coins offered here fall under the same umbrella of uncertainty.

 

Yeah, that's the rub. I don't have unlimited time to search for coins, and why do I wish to look over a dealer's offerings if I am not sure I can shoot off a quick email and buy it. There is a reason why coin displays at shows do not gather the crowds the bourse does, people wish to BUY coins, not just look at them. If I want to look at coins I cannot buy I would go look at my coin books or old auction catalogs, not browse through a dealer's coin listings.

I haven't really ever dealt with this dealer, just a few misc purchases. Not picking on him, but it does make you wonder how much such multi venue dealers I should even look at.

I will just stick with auctions. Sure I have to be patient, but by gosh the coin is supposed to be there, ready to sell, no questions asked. If I ever won an auction on Ebay from such a dealer and got a "sorry it was already sold on my website" message, yeah, I would be HOT! Hopefully that never will happen, since I am pretty sure Doug would be giving me a vacation from CT for a bit.

 

I know we would have to go find yet another forum after that fallout...

 

I have had 5 different vcoin dealers do that to me, i don't buy from ebay, due to a paypal dispute..So now i ask two questions, is this coin in stock and would you take an offer.
I haven't had a problem since...

 

Thats what I do & never once have I been turned down, especially with old stock. Sometimes ive gotten it for half the asking price.

 

I really do suck at that. Maybe its the Quaker in me, I just have always felt uncomfortable asking about discounts. Maybe that is why I am such an auction junkie.