There was a recent post where a member of CT bought a proof coin and was not pleased with its condition. Fortunately, the transaction was with another CT member and it appears that an immediate solution to the problem was reached that was satisfactory to both parties. I expected nothing less from fellow CT members. But there was a comment that was brought up by the buyer of said proof coin that begs further discussion. Their comment was, "well how would something like this happen to a coin thats not sulposed to be touched by bare hands". This brings up a long standing myth that proof coins are not touched by human hands. As I grew up in numismatics, I always thought the same thing. That is what I was taught. But as a collector grows in the hobby of numismatics, they quickly learn that a proof coin is differentiated from every other coin, not be whether or not it has been touched by human hands, but rather by the method of manufacture. A very quick definition of a proof coin is "coins struck using specially polished dies and planchents". I might also add that proof coins are struck multiple of times vs a business strike coin which is typically only struck once. Although special care may be given to these proof coins, by no means are they not touched by human hands. Many modern collectors have visions of coins being mass produced by sophisticated machinery, rolling off the presses and into the packaging without ever touching human hands. This may have well indeed propelled the myth that proof coins are not touched by human hands, but what about all the proof coins minted during the 19th and early 20th centuries? Back then, proof coins were minted and distributed (sold) to collectors for premiums to help cover the additional costs it took someone to prepare the dies. These coins had to be touched by human hands as there was no special machinery or packaging back then to preserve them like we have today. I think this is a very important point that any beginner numismatist must understand....proof is a method of manufacting and is distinctly different from a busness strike coin and has nothing to do with whether the coin was touched or not. Ultimately, these coins come off the same presses as do the regular business strike coins. And as the seller of said coin makes mention, this coin may well have been damaged anytime prior to his ownership. I hope this helps some young collectors who might not have grasped this. Any additional info is definitely welcomed by the CT community.
What about proofs today placed in proof sets? I would say those have never been touched by bare skin.
Who uses cotton gloves when making proofs? That may be true, but as stated above that is part of the packaging process, not the minting process. Let me say it this way.....it doesn't matter if a proof coin is handled with or without gloves or by machinery..... a proof is still a proof. I could take a proof out of its package, stick it into circulation for 100 years and it is still a proof.
Im not so sure about your second statement....show me the proof! LOL! Enochian is correct in saying that cotton gloves or machinery is currently used to touch modern proof coins, this is done so as not to impart any finger prints are other containminents onto the coin. But to once again clarify....this does not make it any less or more of a proof coin. Using gloves is a part of the mints quality control, not part of the manufacturing process.
"found a fingerprint on one of the coins, which is impossible unless the coins have been tampered with, as Proof coins are supposed to have "never been touched by human hands" (according to U.S. Mint advertising.) http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20060715144727AAj4Qh6 cant find a picture how else would a proof coin not have finger prints
It doesnt matter if they are handle with gloved hands or bare hand as long as they are handled properly by the edges, that also goes for unc business strike As far as the mint is concerned and gloved hands, back when I bought NCLT's from the mint I've had received proofs with prints on them wrapped in OGP! As for your link all but 1 doesnt know proof is a type of manufacture, If a proof reaches circulation and wears down to a grade of 35 its still a proof and would be labeled as a Pr35
Your reference that you chose was a Yahoo Q&A reference and you picked the first answer that you saw, but if you read further you would see that this very discussion that we are having is the same that continued on this Yahoo post. This is a quote directly from the mints web site. https://answers.usmint.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/177/related/1 The term "proof" refers to the coin's finish. Proof coins are the finest quality of coin produced by the United States Mint. Their frosted, sculpted foregrounds give them a special "cameo" effect, created by the exacting proofing process. United States Mint proof coins shimmer with brilliant, mirror-like background surfaces and frosted foregrounds. Proof blanks are specially treated, hand-polished, and cleaned to ensure high-quality strikes. The blanks are then fed into presses fitted with specially polished dies and struck at least twice. The coins are then carefully packaged to showcase and preserve their exceptional finish. As the above highlighted states, this is the reason why people use gloves when packing these coins. Which in my oppion propels the myth that proof coins are not touched by bare hands. Maybe at mint they are not touched by bare hands, but this does not preclude them from ever being touched by bare hands.
well then you just proved what i said the mint uses cotton gloves i never said every body does i dont think its right not to so when i handle proofs i use gloves
What I was trying to educate collectors was on this quote, "well how would something like this happen to a coin thats not supposed to be touched by bare hands", and to try and clarify things. This is no rule that says a proof coin should not be touched by bare hands. In may instances collectors chose not to touch their proof coins with bare hands for fear of imparting a fingerprint onto the coin. The original quote, unless I took it out of context, implied that damage should never occur to a proof coin because they all should be held with cotton gloves and all I am saying is, that is not what makes a coin a proof. Using gloves or not does not change a coin from a proof to a busines strike. A proof is a proof no matter what you do to it. Protecting your coins buy wearing cotton gloves or leaving the coins in the plastic holders helps reduce the risk of damage and that it. I stopped wearing cotton gloves a long time ago. Once you learn to comfortably handle and hold a proof coin, you will soon realize that cotton gloves are unnecessary. Some may even argue that the cotton threads could impart damage to a coin if it isn't handled properly. Anyway, I hope this helped a bit.
I cannot see a cotton glove string doing harm to a coin. Last time i checked silver was a rather hard metal. I use cotton rags and wax to clean up the paint on my car.Should i stop doing this as well?
I don't that's a good analogy, nobody cares about hairlines on a cars finish. Cotton may not cause hairlines but all it takes is one microscopic grain of dust attached to the cotton and you have a scratch.
Proof coins that are minted today, and in recent years, are not touched by human hands. But it isn't because the mint people are wearing gloves, it's because people never touch the coins period. It's because it is all done by machines. But in years past that was not true. Proofs were touched by human hands, and hands that did not have gloves on them. But care was taken not to touch the surfaces. You also have to understand something else - what happens to a Proof, any proof regardless of when it was made, once it leaves the mint ? A great many of them, I would even say the majority of them, are removed from their mint packaging by their new owners, collectors and dealers alike, and put into albums, 2x2s, flips, rolls, coin tubes, or other coin holders. And those coins are touched by human hands, bare skin hands. Just about any Proof coin that you buy as an individual coin, has been touched by human hands. That is because almost no one wears gloves to handle their coins, any coins. It simply isn't done. This has been discussed many times, yes there are some few people who do wear gloves, but very, very few people. I know of no dealer who ever does it, no professional grader ever does it, and no knowledgeable collector ever does it. About the only people who do wear gloves are beginners who have read or heard someplace that they should wear gloves. But even they soon find out that they shouldn't wear gloves because gloves greatly lessen your finger dexterity and that can cause far more harmful accidents with the coins. Put a pair of gloves on and try to do anything that requires dexterity. Try to tie your shoes for example. Now take your gloves off and do it and try to tell me it wasn't easier with the gloves off.
Lot's folks think the same way, but they are all wrong. There is no material or fabric that is soft enough to not hairline a coin. There are millions of coins, Proof and business strikes alike, that have wipe marks from somebody wiping the coin with a soft material like cotton. And it doesn't have to be dirty or have grit on it to hairline the coin. Cotton can and will hairline a coin all by itself. It has nothing to do with the hardness of the materials. It has to do with luster. Luster is very fragile, extremely fragile. Your finger, a Q-tip, cotton cloth, any cloth, all of these things will leave marks in luster. Luster is a series of microscopic little ridges topped by molecule sized particles that can be disturbed, scratched, broken, worn away, by anything that touches them. There is nothing that you can use to touch the surface of a coin that will not leave traces of that touch behind - nothing !
