ANCIENT - Huge Egyptian Zeus Bronze Denomination 222 -204 BC

I just picked this up from one of our fellow members who runs an ebay store.

I have been wanting one of those huge Ptolemy Bronzes, I found it extremely difficult and/ or impossible to find the mega-huge ones 80 - 90 grams affordable and in nice condition. So I decided on a 70 grammer, but all of those available were in gF condition at best, and pricey to boot. I did find a 45 grammer for what I wanted to spend and asked my coin bro here what he thought, he thought it was OK but was not pleased with the worn reverse. I did notice afterwards he had one for sale. His of course was better than the rest by a long shot. I thought it was exceptional, although a little more than I wanted to spend, I really feel as though I spent wisely, and got a good deal.

Funny thing- The fellow collector and seller who I hope will chime in takes great "in hand" pics which is very hard to improve upon but I have a thing about shooting my own photos...

:hail:

Ptolemy IV Philopater (222-204 BC)
Ptolemaic Kingdom,
Egypt, Alexandria mint.
AE 38 Unit - 38.6 mm x 45.8 g
Obverse: Diademed and horned but of Ammon Zeus
Reverse: Eagle standing on thunderbolt.- PTOLEMAIOY BASILEWS
REF:SNG Cop 228-229
Note: Super Sexy Perfect Patina

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

don't tell me size doesn't matter....check that bad boy out!

 

Nice man, congrats! These coins barely fit into the flips for my album lol.

 

In hand pics? => Batman?

 

You guys are probably already aware of this site, but I came across an excellent article that proposes the idea that the flans for Ptolemaic bronzes were prepared on lathes, which would account for so many of their features. Here's a link to the first page - continue on to the other pages to read the entire thing. It's quite fascinating...

http://www.classicalcoins.com/flans1.html

 

Huh? ... yah, sadly my memory is soooo bad lately ... but I can "almost remember" a contradictory article (ummm, maybe by dougsmit?)

... sorry, I can't quite recall ... but I know that there was "something"?

 

:yes:

 

http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/pit.html

... here is the article that I was talking about ...

 

Both the article I posted and Doug's article pose intriguing possibilities. But they seem to share more commonalities than disagreements, and not being a metalworker, I couldn't begin to have an opinion on the subtler points.

 

Great coin Ancientnoob! Congrats! Yours is a great example! :thumb: Here is a pic Zeus Ammon from my NYC MET trip.

 

Svoronos 974. Current scholarship dates this issue to the reign of Ptolemy III, likely struck at the beginning of his reign.

 

I also missed where my article and the one linked were substantially out of synch. Reverse engineering from evidence is hard.

 

I would point out that flan preparation was not restricted to Egypt. I have many from all over the eastern med with similar flan prep. I am on my phone so assume Doug probably already covered that though.

 

Ptolemy you say, a big one too!!! great looking coin, i looked at many of these, yours has great detail, and great Patina, very nice pick up Master Anoob...:thumb::thumb:

 

Noobster => that is a great new pick-up (good choice) ... yah, Dionysos has gorgeous stuff and he is a pleasure to deal with, eh?

Hey brother, I'm gonna steal this opportunity to post a couple of my Ptolemy coins (I hope you don't mind) ...

=> both of these babies are roughly the same size (70 grams each)

 

Steve's not the only one, with a big one..

Ptolemy
42mm x over 70g...

 

Here we go again, men with their "who has the biggest Ptolemaic bronzes" contest.....

 

Every time I see these coins I have to wonder if they were made in order to be worth their weight in bronze. In general, smaller bronzes in ancient cultures were monetized to be worth more than their metal content, but why did these get so large? Were they only worth their weight in bronze, or were they monetized at a much higher value?

The question isn't rhetorical - I'm totally unfamiliar with the history of these coins.

 

The Ptolemy's didn't seem to like striking small coins in any denomination much. So, instead of small silvers, they made huge bronzes.

You are right copper coinage was token in all cultures, but still you had to make it APPEAR there was that worth of copper in them. Look at the Romans and the sestertius. It was a tiny silver coin, then a huge bronze one. Same could be said of the English penny. When they reintroduced it in 1797 as a copper coin, they were massive.

You have to, at first at least, have a massive amount of copper in the coin for everyone to get used to the new coin and its worth. THEN, you can slowly reduce the weight, as most cultures do.

 

The giant Ptolemy Bronzes usually help compensate guys with "little coin" syndrome.....